No holidays - carbon footprint

[Teacherbee85]

I've noticed recently whenever anyone posts about flying to go on holiday they tend to get jumped on by people saying it's bad for the environment.

I don't think I know any of these people in real life - everyone I know goes on holiday at least twice a year.

But on mumsnet a lot of people seem to have stopped due to environmental reasons.

If this is you, when did you make the decision? How do you deal with family and friends who so still choose to fly regularly?

Note the words 'demand' and 'number of flyers'.

Reduce number of flyers, reduce demand, reduce flights.

@NoBinturongsHereMate

My point was, the minuscule amount of people who don't fly at all, compared to the ones who do fly, aren't having any affect on reducing the demand as flights are at an all time high.

The result is negligible.

We don’t fly anymore, since 2019. We do go abroad once or twice a year, by ferry and diesel van, or train. We also travel in the U.K. We’re not perfect, but we make good choices or less bad choices where we can. We can’t control anyone else, just our own behaviour.

i won’t point to celebrities or royals or politicians who fly frequently (even though they should be first against the wall come the revolution 😉) because there’s nothing I can do to change them. I can only do me. Similarly, in our friendship group (middle class, doing well), everyone flies. It’s come up once or twice but never divisively.

Other things we do - one child (not through choice, we wanted two, but are now happy, and we definitely didn’t want three); electric car (don’t buy the nonsense about taking 6 years to pay back manufacturing - how long do you think fossil cars take? It’s very similar, all that metal isn’t free - And e batteries can be recycled); solar panels; mostly vegetarian; have a contract for renewable energy only from Ecotricity so even when we use the grid to charge the car, it’s not coal.

On the downside - we have a diesel van and a wood burner, both of which are terrible and we try to minimise; we flew a lot when we were younger; used to eat a lot of meat. In some ways I look back with grief and nostalgia for the 90s and early 00s when we could still do these things with some degree of innocence. Not any more. But as the saying goes, when the information changes, I change my behaviour…

Yes we did a train trip to Italy last year. It was amazing and far better than flying. But it cost more and took longer. The train journey was part of the holiday. But if you want to go somewhere and flop on a beach for a week then spending 2 days travelling by train to Spain isn't really going to be for you.

Surely that's a reason for why more people should reduce the amount they fly (so it makes a more significant contribution) rather than telling people not to bother?

None.

One. I'd have loved more children, but didn't due to the environmental impact. One was a big decision, but I did everything I could to minimise my carbon footprint. Cloth nappies, homemade clothes, growing my own food, keeping chickens, solar panels, composting/recycling, grey water use etc.

I won't fly (or cruise) for the rest of my life. I don't need to be on a different patch of land to find satisfaction in life. I'd much rather do my bit.

I think this is very true
I rarely talk about the choices I make and the reasons because unless the other person is broadly of the same view they often seem to take it as criticism and get defensive or try to undermine your choices
and I would never question other people's choices unless my opinion was asked obviously
better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

It’s great to reduce flying but many people would never see their family again.
The people who seem evangelical about not flying also seem to have loads of annual leave/able to take unpaid leave and don’t seem to be equally as passionate about encouraging people to have less children (1 person I know has 3 children but is saving the world by not flying).

Absolutely cannot relate to this and know nobody in real life who can either. Sure, you can ferry and train to places on your doorstep but there is a whole world out there. What a waste not to see it.

We don't fly for animal reasons - someone needs to stay and look after them so we simply don't do holidays.

Thanks for this @ellabella89 , By flying I have seen the Khyber Pass, Golden Temple, and the Pyramids. And met and spoken with some of the people along the way.
In Europe I could have seen the historic cities of the Hapsburgs and Romanovs by long hours of driving. But I was in a much more relaxed and receptive mood after help from EasyJet.

By train I have seen Japan, Russia, Mongolia, South Korea and China (as well as closer places like France and Austria). Khyber Pass and Golden Temple are tricky overland at the moment, but possible when the political situation has been calmer - I hope they will be again. Egypt and north Africa can be done by train and ferry.

Starting from the UK, there are 3 continents to choose from without flying. And you see the country rather than just one or 2 tourist sites.

I'd rather see them online from the comfort of my own home. Google maps is excellent now, and photographs/videos too. My right to "see the world" doesn't trump the importance of the future of that world.

And we once thought Smug "One upmanship" had died out.
At least no one got 'preachy' about having the better equipped Cortina

I've not stopped flying, but I've made a conscious effort to fly less than I would if there were no environmental concerns. Limiting long haul a bit, and trying to do our european holidays by train where it is feasible.

A large number of my friends and colleagues seem to be doing summer holidays in europe by train this year. It suddenly seems to have become much more common

Travelling by train is usually more expensive that flying to the same destination in Europe. The people I know who travel by train tend to be better off.

We only fly once a year and are strict about it. I know. I know. It's still flying and it's still bad.
We also take lots of train trips tho, and ferries and driving. None of which are carbon neutral if course.
But the point is we've cut back on flights.
I view it like meat eating / veganism. If we all did a little less no one would have to give up altogether.

The last time we flew was about 8 years ago to India. We are going to Australia next year so obviously can’t avoid flying (realistically)

but

we have opted for places we can easily drive/train/ferry to or make the journey a part of the adventure - we went to Greece via train and ferry and the journey took us through Italy and Switzerland. It was incredible

we also have family and France and more often will euro star/train to see them, as well as take the ferry to Ireland or go to somewhere in the uk

this year we are going to Norfolk for a week in August and then Orkney in September (via ferry)

committees.parliament.uk/publications/42703/documents/212154/default/
In the UK civil aviation emissions account for 7-8% of emissions.

And I have cut out beef, thank you. I'm working on dairy...
Yes, of course, everything that we do is small. But that's in the nature of individual action for most of us.

Millions of people saying I have a small impact is why we are in such a bad place

You can't fix everything but you can play your part or not as you choose

Haven't flown since 2018. I can't justify it knowing that flying would be making climate change worse. We still holiday though in wonderful UK locations inc northern Ireland, as well as in Europe to France, Switzerland, Italy and the Netherlands and Belgium via train or ferry. My daughter wants to go to Australia and I've said I'll consider it in about 3 years time but I will need to think about it carefully and look into offsetting.

So how many weeks annual leave do you get ?

You could always travel by cargo ship. https://cargoholidays.com/australia-cargo-ship-travel