No holidays - carbon footprint

[Teacherbee85]

I've noticed recently whenever anyone posts about flying to go on holiday they tend to get jumped on by people saying it's bad for the environment.

I don't think I know any of these people in real life - everyone I know goes on holiday at least twice a year.

But on mumsnet a lot of people seem to have stopped due to environmental reasons.

If this is you, when did you make the decision? How do you deal with family and friends who so still choose to fly regularly?

This is me and my family. Several others we know in Bristol also. We will fly if there are no other viable options (for example family emergencies as our elderly parents are in Europe), however if it's for leisure travel or viable to do it for work then we'd prefer to avoid planes.

So far I'm yet to experience anyone being preachy about it irl. It's been more of a quiet shift. For example friends with their two small children have been interrailing for their holidays this year and last year. They've not explicitly said they're against flying or lectured anyone about it, they've just changed their own behaviour. Another friend travels a lot for work to Sweden and Finland. She's also started going by train and uses the journey to work en route. Again, she's never explicitly said 'im quitting flying', she just hasn't flown in about 5 years. Several families have switched to holidaying in the UK or driving to Europe and camping.

Think I've had maybe one conversation about the choice not to fly but it was more conversational, informative, light hearted. There were people around the table who still choose to fly and they weren't made to justify themselves or anything like that. Was a friendly chat! However I do think that the more people around you changing their behaviour that the more likely you are to amend yours even slightly.

I think by some statistics flying causes 4% of carbon emissions, but 70% of those are caused by only 15% of the global population. The worst polluters are people on private jets - people like Taylor Swift - the world's worst polluter with regards to flying. But how many of her adoring fans have said anything about her flights? And what about in the UK, where The Royals are always buzzing around in helicopters while telling us about how concerned they are about the environment. A commercial plane that's half full will still fly. A private jet or helicopter without their one passenger plus entourage won't fly.

Yeah I'm actively trying to live the kind of life where the children won't be able to hold me to account at least for any of my environmental choices 😅 sure they'll find something else to be upset with me over but it won't be that!!

Mind you getting them to understand that right now when they're small and want new new new everything and all the mounds of plastic tat is also not at all fun! Thank heavens for charity shops.

It must depend on who you mix with then….I’m northern working class….everyone I know mainly works for nhs or local authority….no one goes on business trips …..everyone flys for their summmer hols …..never heard a discussion around saving the planet….it’s just never a topic of conversation

Interesting article about Taylor and her environmental impact here

https://thechoatenews.choate.edu/2024/02/28/dont-have-bad-blood-with-taylor-swift/#:~:text=Still%2C%20even%20according%20to%20the,and%207.8%20billion%20people%20worldwide.

We found it after a heated discussion about her latest tour and the impact private jets have on the planet!

My DP and I haven't flown since 2016, not solely on environmental grounds, but it is definitely a factor for us. I do despair of people who fly without a second thought several times a year (including our grownup DC)

It wouldn't stop me going somewhere I really wanted to go but the carbon footprint would be a consideration, and the trip would be a real treat.

I can only think of two other families who make green travel choices (ie train travel within Europe) but there may be other who like us, don't tend to go abroad much; I just don't know their reasons.

Yeah absolutely!!

Funnily enough we're discussing moving north and one of the draws is that we'll be closer to Newcastle which will make it easier to get on a ferry and access the continent without flying!

If you hear someone chatting about flight free summer holidays in the pub next year with a Bristolian accent it might be me 😂

Possibly including having already travelled alot in their life time, have more than one stab a year at getting away and so less likely to want guaranteed sunshine, can afford good and interesting accommodation ,food and locations in the UK, enough leave and where with all to book and travel to Europe without flying , have a nice lifestyle ,home and amenities in the UK day to day.

Not flying is one of the most impactful things you can do that you actually have direct control over.

Most co2 emissions are a kind of “fixed cost” that you can’t control. Cement, steel, shipping of things like manufactured goods, oil, etc. You can boycott and buy local, sure, but unless everybody does it too then it doesn’t help much.

One long haul flight can add 25% to your personal annual co2. It’s about the worst thing you can do, climate-wise. The reason aviation is 2.5% of global emissions is that hardly anybody in the world does it.

The UK is 1% of global emissions, sure, but one of the worst per-capita countries. There is no way that we in the west will manage to persuade the developing world to invest in low-emissions technologies as they grow unless we are on top of our game. In fact, right now China is the world leader in renewables and cutting emissions per unit of production - we need to up our game, not them.

if you fly more than once every three years, then you’re a climate denier.

Oh that is an interesting article. I wonder how effective carbon offsetting is though? Is it just planting trees? What about the others? I wonder how many others are held to account? They won't be generating as much for the economy. Prince William flying between London and Norfolk won't be generating anything for the economy. He could get there by train in 90 minutes and he's hardly overworked.I think we need to have a frequent flyer levy, or flying credits rather than demonising people who fly on one 2 week package holiday a year. If the super rich want to fly more, they can buy credits from someone who doesn't want to fly or they have to invest in green energy.

I do wonder how many kids these "no fliers" have.

@JennyBeanR @Arghgerroffyabastard really though what the world needs is everyone doing all of those things as much as they can.

If everyone stopped buying fast fashion the majority of the time, avoided goods with a huge carbon footprint like those manufactured in china and Bangladesh, ate meat once a week, bought from their local producer, ate seasonally, flew less, considered where they travelled and therefore to whom they offered their money, voted with the environment in mind blah blah then it would be far more impactful than 1 in 10 people boycotting flying.

In my circle the majority have two children. A couple have three, a couple have one, but the norm is two.

@Teacherbee85 I don't think I know any of these people in real life - everyone I know goes on holiday at least twice a year.

Two flights a year is a lot from my point of view! Nobody I know flies that often. I've not flown since 2018. Each to their own I suppose, but that's not the norm!

its all very well and good us giving up our holidays for environmental reasons but what good is that when the very wealthy take private plane trips numerous times a month/ year
I mean one of the Kardashian’s sent a private plane across America ( and back presumably ) to fetch a cheesecake !!

Absolutely agree.

All of this “there’s nothing we can do” stuff is just rubbish.

If you do all you suggest, though, it has to include a LOT less flying or it’s pointless.

There is a lot to see in the UK, and it's easy enough to get to Ireland and continental Europe by ferry or train, so you don't need to fly to have a massive range of places open to you. It's different if you want to go somewhere like Japan or the US of course. I suppose in theory you could get to Japan overland!

@DramaLlamaBangBang it's actually 2.5%, and car travel is four times that. However vapour trails and other pollutants add up too.
The fact remains that much less than 10% of the world's population fly. Even UK and US less than half the population fly in any given year. But it's increasing. Efficiency in the industry is improving by 1% a year, but flights are increasing by 6%.
Trains and coaches are much more environmentally friendly, but it's not always possible to take several days to train it across the US for example, rather than a six hour flight. But maybe that short flight to Brussels or Paris could be avoided (after all getting to the airport, waiting once there etc and it's almost the same amount of time as the train). My DD and I took the train to visit Glasgow earlier this year rather than fly as so many suggested. It was comfortable and scenic.

Yes private jets are the biggest problem.

My DD and I took the train to visit Glasgow earlier this year rather than fly as so many suggested. It was comfortable and scenic

I've done that too, or got the train there and flown back. Even doing that cuts your emissions in half. I like Eurostar as well but it is so unreliable.

I think business travel is a big issue - people say they want to be ethical and fly somewhere for a meeting that they could have easily done on Teams. Maybe it's not quite as good, but it does work and is way better for the climate!

So therefore it is no big deal for you to not fly. What do you do to help the environment that DOES inconvenience you/matter to you?

We have done one short haul flight in the last decade, but are doing America next year.

Money, fear of flying and environmental damage are equal reasons for the lack of flying- it’s easy to avoid flying if you are terrified of it anyway, it always seems silly to spend the money on something you hate!

Ds is now at an age where he wants to go to places though, so we will probably do one return flight every other year. That feels like a good balance of all priorities to us.

"I don't think I know any of these people in real life - everyone I know goes on holiday at least twice a year."

Bully for you. There's a COL crisis affecting a lot of people but nice to know your lot aren't affected.

This post is just a reminder that not everyone lives like you.

True. But if everyone did it (including the super rich on their transcontinental flights in search of cheesecake) then it would free up some capacity for everyone else to do some leisure travel twice a decade or something.

I personally last flew for a holiday in 2019...hmm, well, that was a wedding in a holiday location. So actually I last flew totally off my own back for leisure purposes in 2017. I don't think I really started actively thinking about avoiding flying for environmental reasons till about 2019, and since then I've not done it for leisure. Kinda hoping that next year I might be able to go and visit family in Asia, which would definitely involve a flight.