How to tell DC their dad is a deadbeat

[Deadbeatex]

I have never and will never badmouth my EXH to our DC but I need to start introducing the idea to my eldest DC 9 that he's a deadbeat and they are likely not going to have contact with him for a significant period of time/ever.

Since we separated 2 years ago I've done everything to facilitate contact but for various reasons its been very on for short periods and off for long periods (all due to him and his choices) I don't really want to go into detail but it's now on him to set up contact and I doubt he will, it's already been approx 4 months.

DC hasn't really asked as sadly they are used to not seeing him as there have been substantial breaks in contact before (again all his choice) but I know they will ask at some point and I don't know what to say to them. Currently they have been told that he's on the naughty step/in time out because he's been making bad choices. (They were home when the police called round about the latest lot of abuse/threats/harassment and they didn't hear any of my conversation with the police, only their dad's name said by the officer on arrival before I could get them out of earshot)

Just to clarify he's not in prison it was the only thing I could think of to say to them off the top of my head and why I want to be more prepared the next time I'm questioned.

When they are an adult I can have an appropriate conversation and show a lot of evidence from courts, social worker etc that my conscience is clear and I did all I could to facilitate a relationship between them but for now they are a young child and I can't tell them that their dad is a narcissistic, abusive c*nt who only cares about himself!

My younger DC barely remembers him and won't be asking any time soon but obviously I'll need answers for my other DC at some point too. The focus right now is to be prepared to answer my older DCs questions that will be coming soon as they are aware time outs don't last this long!

Apologies it's so long I was trying to give enough detail, I've also NC for this. Any advice welcome please.

So social services are involved with him and the children?

We have a disability social worker that we got assigned after we went into refuge due to my younger DC additional needs. They are satisfied that I am protective parenting and aside from a phone call after each police visit for a quick chat and to confirm I'm still protective parenting I never hear from them. My social worker is also now on maternity leave so it's now just whoever picks up the referral that gives a quick call

what safeguarding measures does he need to follow before seeing them?

OP telling them he is a good man is a lie.
Don't lie about his character.
You don't have to say he is a bad man, but don't lie and say he is a good man.
Good men do not behave as he has and your children have seen.

I would be saying that unfortunately you really don't know when they will see him. That some adults who have children find it hard to be the best they can be and are not around a lot for their children. That it is ALL their father's issues and NOT them, that you love them to bits and are there for them.

Very hard for you OP.
Simply language telling the truth.
Not all adults are good ones.

Passing a drugs test and initially seeing them at a supervised contact centre are the main ones, he refuses to do either so there will be no contact

what? that’s very very serious
drugs?
so extensive SS involvement

OP, that was sort of relevant to your OP

These are not conditions set by social services they have been set by me. Social services have not said a word about him seeing them despite knowing my concerns, they've said its my choice if I allow contact or not

So he’s a drug taker?

And if set by you, he could easily refuse and take you to court to see the children for imposing a condition that you have selected yourself. Are SS aware of his drug use?

and you can’t just hire a supervised contact centre space?

DM did not handle the situation around herself, us kids, and Dad well at all. DM had a very negative opinion of him and made sure we knew about it.

I formed my own opinion of him that didn't match that of DM. When I was younger he was my dad and I thought he was great. However I hit a point around age 12/13 where I knew he was unreliable and for a while we didn't really bother with each other.

I'm sure your kids will form their own opinions too. You might tell them he's a deadbeat now but to them he's still dad. Eventually they'll see him for who he is.

Considering I took him to court to formalise contact arrangements and he didn't bother showing up I'm not particularly concerned, in fact he's been told that he needs to take me to court to see them which he won't do, hence my post on how to speak to my DC that their dad is a deadbeat and they likely won't be seeing him for a long time/ever.

Just to be very clear, whilst I will call him a deadbeat here and to family and friends (never within earshot of the DC) I will never call him this to the DC. I agree they will come to this realisation themselves and don't need to hear me say it or be influenced by me being negative about him.

I've been wrong previously in that I've been too positive about him in fear of not wanting to push my negative views about him onto the DC and will be going neutral and age appropriately truthful from now on

Children know they are the products of their parents so can internalise, if my daddy/mummy is bad then I am too or at least part of me it's so hard when someone is genuinely a dick but the next time they ask I would take a little moment to talk about what you liked about their dad. You had kids with him so at least early on there must have been something.

Your dad is handsome and when I first met him he remembered I liked sugar in my tea, I like people who are thoughtful, youre thoughtful arent you.

Unfortunately sometimes people, even good people, make the wrong choices and can get scared and make even more wrong choices. Do you remember when broke x? You felt bad about it so you lied and said you didnt do it. That didnt feel very nice. (Talk about hiding from the things youve done, wanting to run away, one bad choice can lead to more bad choices.)

In the end, you were so good and told the truth and said sorry and mummy loved that. I was so proud. Unfortunately, daddy is still making bad choices and running away. Its sad because he doesnt get to join in all the fun we are having, like going to the park and getting ice cream. Maybe, one day, he will say sorry and make smart choices, make amends and he can get to know you. Until then we are going to focus on us and we will make smart choices so we can keep having fun.

This provides space. Daddy isnt bad (therefore part of me isnt bad) but he is making bad choices, I can be different and make good choices. You don't want your child ever using their genetics as an excuse for being a deadbeat themselves. How many times have we heard the line 'my whole family is messed up, I come from a long line of fuck ups' as an excuse.

Obviously as the child gets older you can go into more detail and take about the choices the dad made and why they were wrong and what you did to protect them, but not yet.

Children know they are the products of their parents so can internalise, if my daddy/mummy is bad then I am too or at least part of me it's so hard when someone is genuinely a dick but the next time they ask I would take a little moment to talk about what you liked about their dad. You had kids with him so at least early on there must have been something.

Your dad is handsome and when I first met him he remembered I liked sugar in my tea, I like people who are thoughtful, youre thoughtful arent you.

Unfortunately sometimes people, even good people, make the wrong choices and can get scared and make even more wrong choices. Do you remember when broke x? You felt bad about it so you lied and said you didnt do it. That didnt feel very nice. (Talk about hiding from the things youve done, wanting to run away, one bad choice can lead to more bad choices.)

In the end, you were so good and told the truth and said sorry and mummy loved that. I was so proud. Unfortunately, daddy is still making bad choices and running away. Its sad because he doesnt get to join in all the fun we are having, like going to the park and getting ice cream. Maybe, one day, he will say sorry and make smart choices, make amends and he can get to know you. Until then we are going to focus on us and we will make smart choices so we can keep having fun.

This provides space. Daddy isnt bad (therefore part of me isnt bad) but he is making bad choices, I can be different and make good choices. You don't want your child ever using their genetics as an excuse for being a deadbeat themselves. How many times have we heard the line 'my whole family is messed up, I come from a long line of fuck ups' as an excuse.

Obviously as the child gets older you can go into more detail and take about the choices the dad made and why they were wrong and what you did to protect them, but not yet.

Whatever you say to him, make sure you stress how this is nothing to do with him and it’s not his fault. That this isn’t him being rejected because he isn’t good enough, that it’s his dad who is at fault, not him. That’s the most important message to get across.

ok i’m confused
i thought you said you had done everything to facilitate contact

and you never mentioned…. drugs!

so i think ill bow out

So you can say he is ill
and addicted to drugs
if they ask when they older.
And has to get help with that
And this is his choices he made

sitting on a naughty step will not cure an addiction....
Do not use words like "deadbeat"

you could say that their dad gets overwhelmed with his feelings of anger or wanting to run away because he doesn’t know how to cope and it looks like maybe that’s what’s happened, you are sure that he would rather be able to cope but he has to work it out for himself, and that is really not fair for them because it means they don’t have a dad around, and that often children think they must’ve done something wrong or must be unlovable for this to happen, but that is absolutely not the case

then you can ask them how they feel about it all, and just listen and reflect back what they say. This will change over time. They may shrug and say they don’t care. You can tell them you love them but don’t tell them your love is enough for them, that is their decision to make not yours. Be prepared for them to be angry towards you about it at points, don’t be defensive, just hold a space for them to talk about it and thank them if they share how they’re feeling. Acknowledge any wrongdoing, tell them you are sorry that things have worked out like this.

This is much more important than broadcasting your version of events at them or trying to tell them how to make sense if it all, however, well-meaning you are about it. You are clearly a lovely mum, I think the technique is called active, listening or something, really powerful if you can get the hang of it

I think it's important that you emphasise that he is an adult, making his own choices. He doesn't explain them to you, so you don't know. It's really important that they understand that you are not responsible for him, or his choices. You're not his mum. The police are not your henchmen. They only get involved because they have identified a problem with his behaviour that justified their attention.

If you frame it as you choosing to keep him away, even if that's to keep yourself safe, the DC may become angry and resentful towards you when older. They'll go through an 'I know best, I can make my own choices' phase and may feel you've prevented them from having a relationship with him, for reasons that are solely about you. However necessary for your safety, they may view this as weak and selfish.

I had a similar ex husband. Court ordered not to see DS ss he was violent to us both. I wss cometely honest with DS and just said dad cant see you right now because he cant manage his anger or look after you properly. DS understood.
He started seeing him again at 18 and they have a very distant relatjonship. DS knows he is unable to be a good father and quite honestly needs therapy which he has always refused to have.

Things must’ve been so bad for the court to order that. Really sorry you and your child had to go through that, sounds like you have handled it really well

I agree that you shouldn't call him a deadbeat but also I wouldn't call him a good man.

I wouldn't say that he loves them & misses them as you just don't know & circumstances suggest otherwise.

Don't call him names. "Your Dad's a deadbeat".

Do, honestly describe his behaviours.

"It's really unkind of him to lie to you like that"

"That's a really mean thing to say to someone "

"That's rude, I don't know why he did that".

I had to work out my father was a good man but not very good at being a father (and there was no abuse or anything like that just never stepped up)

Honestly being told someone loves you but never bothers to see you or talk to you isn't a great example of love.

We haven't seen Daddy In a while as he has made some bad choices and he has to take sometime away and learn how to be kind, I don't know when we will see him next but I'm always here for you I will always show up for you and I will always make sure your safe because I love you.

Where is Daddy? Who is Daddy? amzn.eu/d/04gETAYS

This book is free if you have a kindle subscription;could be a good way of explaining

@BookArt lays it out perfectly.

It may a conversation you initiate, as he's likely thinking about the naughty step / the fact you told a silly little lie; especially if you've told him not to tell lies.

Italso means he won't catch you off guard again, and he won't be 'as' anxious the next time the police visits.

Well done for getting away from him.💐