To wonder if a lot of the Just Stop Oil protesters are not very nice people on a personal level

[HazelSchmazel]

There are a few Just Stop Oil threads around and I've noticed that a couple of posters have stated that the protesters are not very nice people.

Which got me thinking .....

A few years ago, I was in a horrible relationship with a rather unpleasant guy - a selfish, alcoholic, abusive cheater, who treated me like dirt and ended up stealing a considerable amount of money from me. Despite being a daily meat eater, regularly flying, driving a gas guzzler, having children etc. he would regularly pontificate on saving the environment (and would castigate me on environmental grounds for having a cat - even though I'm a childless vegetarian, who never flies!). Needless to say, the whole experience made me very unhappy.

Fast forward to the present, and I gather that he is now a very active Just Stop Oil protester.

Now, I'm bracing myself to be shot down in flames, as I appreciate that of course, it's unreasonable to judge an entire movement based on one bad apple.

But could it be the case, that there is something about JSO that attracts these nasty characters? Just wondering ......

My one personal experience of an activist many moons ago was an ex, hugely into animal rights. So much so he was arrested on numerous protests. He refused to wear leather, ate no animal products, even objected to rocking horses due to what they symbolised!

Everyone said that someone so kind to animals must be a lovely person. He was massively abusive and came very close to killing me.

So personally I would never again get involved with someone "radical". I think "the cause" is often an excuse to behave in unacceptable ways but try to legitimise it. Extremism is extremism no matter how noble the cause.

I'm so sorry to read about your experience
That's awful, and I sincerely hope you're fully recovered.
As you say though, that's just your one experience with one individual. I'm a vegan, and animal rights are extremely important to me. But, for me, and many, it's an extension of my general ethos of non-violence and kindness. I oppose all violence.
Animal rights is an interesting one, as I have met some quite scary misanthropes in that movement, who I think do use it as a mask for their general hatred of humans! But, they really are the minority. Most vegans and animal rights people are gentle souls who can't bear to see their fellow creatures suffering.
I guess in every walk of life you get your bad apples. I truly believe there's far more good in people than bad though 😊

I can see what you are saying. But I do see it as selfish. Going to prison and losing your liberty doesn’t mean you are altruistic.

This is the point. They aren’t actually helping their cause. If anything they are damaging it. A lot of people involved in these cause just enjoy the rebellion aspect. It gives them a chance to be disruptive, rebel against society and ‘the man’ but still convince themselves they hold the moral high ground.

Cressidas mum had written speech. She wasn’t speaking as hoc. She had planned what she was going to say. JSO would have also known what she was going to say. One of them filmed a video in case they went to prison, so these speeches and justifications were likely planned before they went. Her mother wrote down her feelings, will have re read it through and not one thought of how hypocritical that speech was entered her head. Cressida will have been very aware of what she was going to say and couldn’t see it herself. Another one of the people jailed had a family member who also mentioned a wedding that would be missed. The blindness to their own hypocrisy is stunning.

They didn’t expect to go to prison, or at least only go for a very short period. It’s an immensely privileged position to not have to worry about the impact going to prison will have on employment. These protestors and organisers, are punching down. They are damaging, mainly, people who don’t have the same privilege. Whilst damaging their own cause.

and I will repeat it again. I work in an industry where working at height is common. It’s extremely dangerous. One of the most dangerous jobs in the Uk. These organisers sent people up to height with 8 hours training and convinced them it was a good thing that they had to do to save the planet. So who would have taken responsibility if one had fallen and died? And why did they feel it’s ok to risk people lives like that? convince them a few hours training was ok?

To me that’s all selfish.

Maybe we both need to accept that we're not in full possession of the facts?
I didn't know her mum was reading out a pre-written speech. Fair enough, I stand corrected on that one. I still feel sorry for her. Can't help it! I feel sorry for any loving mum whose child has been sent to prison. Awful.
But, you don't really know what the motives, thoughts, feelings of the protesters are/were? Can you just keep an open mind, and entertain the thought that maybe their motives are indeed 100% honourable?
Where the thoughts of people we haven't met are concerned, we really can only guess. Nobody can really know.
I'm choosing to give the benefit of the doubt.

You can choose to give the benefit of the doubt. No one else has to.

You can feel sorry for any loving mum whose child goes to prison. I get that. My sympathy stops when that mother tries to pretend their child is a hero with a strong sense of right and wrong and then moans their daughter will miss a wedding, when her daughter is in prison for knowingly stopping emergency services, children getting medication, people getting to funerals, people getting to medical appointments, people getting to work so they were losing money and so on.

The arrogance to think anyone should care about her brothers wedding when she didn’t care about anyone else is astounding. And it’s damaging their cause.

Most people in prison aren’t there because they were altruistic. Her actions as someone with immense privilege was punching down at people do not have the same privilege. Thats selfish.

Have you read the court judgement? You clearly haven’t watched the speech as she clearly had cards with a pre written speech on. I would suggest if you want more evidence you watch, at least, her speech.

I would also suggest you watch the GMB interview with the men that spent time with JSO and then sabotaged their lunch meeting. I think they were called JSPPO or something. They spent time with them.

Those are the facts I am going from. I appreciate you don’t agree, that’s not a problem. But I am going actually reading and watching the evidence around it.

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo sorry I meant to tag you to my last post. Hopefully it was obvious it was for you anyway.

Also, this little clip has one of the five speaking from prison. She seems genuinely lovely and caring. Obviously a sense of solidarity for many of the women prisoners. Most of whom most definitely won't be privileged at all. As I'm sure you know, many women are sent to prison essentially for being poor. Also many prisoners (both male and female) with severe mental health problems.

I reiterate again that I don't agree with the tactics of JSO. I do feel very sorry for innocents whose lives were affected by the protests. But, a lot of the stuff people are saying here - well, we just don't know if it's true or not. You don't really know that the five can afford to go to prison for example. It's all conjecture.

https://youtube.com/shorts/kFw82vi4NNw?si=d_F4A3ykUgLN2N7p

I find it intriguing that as a doctor I have only once had a patient ask me if their prescription medication contained animal products and I have NEVER had a patient ask if their medication was tested on animals. The latter might be because people would generally know that pretty much all medication will have been tested on animals at some point, but do those who are anti-animal testing realise that includes all forms of contraception including condoms and over the counter painkillers? Why is animal cruelty in cosmetic testing a hotter topic than cruelty to humans producing clothes?
It's not just cheap fast fashion - many mid range and designer ranges are exploiting people in factories worldwide, and most Chinese cotton is produced using forced labour.
I think the large majority of anti-animal testing & vegan people ultimately will happily use medication & contraceptives that contain animal products and were tested on animals.

One of the things I'm finding quite difficult about these conversations, is that people are almost expected to pick a side. I think it's more nuanced.
It's totally possible for me to understand the utter desperation of JSO protesters who've tried everything lawful to raise the alarm, with little effect. But to also feel their methods aren't getting the results they hope for, and in my opinion aren't really ethical in terms of the effect on the public whose lives get affected.
Totally possible for me to understand the utter frustration and feelings of helplessness of those caught up in JSO protests. But, also to strongly disagree with the prison sentences, which in my opinion are insane.
I find the culture war, and all the 'othering' and tribalism incredibly upsetting these days. I think we all just need to listen to eachother more. Speak calmly and listen back.
Anyway, I'm off to do my little bit for nature and water some plants!

Yes! This! This is the problem with most debates these days, everything is polarised, nobody wants to understand the nuance or listen to opposing points of view.
Views are extreme, not moderate and it all becomes tribal as you say.

For example, I can vote labour in the election but still wish they hadn’t had such a landslide victory. I can look at the seats that would have been gained in parliament by Reform if a proportional representation system was in place and feel that it’s unfair to reform voters that they don’t have adequate representation in parliament without agreeing with any of their policies.
Some people would probably call me racist for saying that. It’s incredible.

They all seem really smug. I also wouldn’t want to be friends with a vandal who deliberately holds up traffic, stopping ambulances taking patients to hospital. Not my kind of people.

I've spent hours of my life sat in traffic jams, caused by sheer weight of traffic, accidents, roadworks - often different utilities digging the road up again and again - yet we all accept that?

I think people are being nuanced. the vast majority of people on the thread understand climate change and want to do better for the planet.

But also completely disagree that JSO are doing anything to help (or even damaging the cause further), Feel they are simply self serving, not have sympathy for these individuals AND that the prisons sentence was appropriate. Whilst agreeing something must be done.

I really don’t like the view that you can only be nuanced if you are firmly in the middle.

I agree. I've been picked apart on this thread by posters demanding to know my response to a variety of in-depth questions just because I have a different opinion to them. Like you, I sympathise with many JSO protesters, I agree with their cause and I think the unprecedentedly long sentences they received are disproportionate and unjustified. I know one of the protesters who was jailed and she is one of the kindest, most principled people I know. She's trying to take action for her children's future when all other options have failed.

Yet that doesn't have to mean I agree with every single one of their actions, or that I have to justify my opinions to people who are spoiling for a fight. I can see a nuanced situation here where some JSO protesters take it too far for their own purposes. And that yes, some of their actions have led to unintended consequences, but I see that they are enacting change. Already the government has agreed to one of their demands on no new oil of gas sites.

The level of vitriol and personal attack on this thread has been eye-opening.

Which is ironic given the title of the thread

The ones on Radio/TV seem over entitled, over opinionated, don’t seem to have to worry about having to earn a living, and are irritating.

They were obnoxious with their protests - telling people who couldn’t go to hospital, funerals etc that JSO beliefs trumped the needs of normal people.🙄

That's like comparing someone who has just been knifed/beaten to death in a premeditated attack with someone who has just been killed in an accident. One was planned violence the other was unplanned violence. One is a crime the other is an accident, surely?

Roadworks are hardly spontaneous

If you believe that climate change is catastropic, their beliefs do trump ordinary people's needs. Just like the sacrifices we all made during the covid lockdowns. Whether you agree with their methods or not, it's hard to argue that halting climate change doesn't take precidence over someone getting to a funeral or even to hospital. That is what JSO feels is at stake.

You do understand that if the UK cut all emissions down to zero it would make absolutely no difference to climate change. We aren't really a country that produces large amounts of greenhouse gases unlike China, India and the US.
As for using heat pumps etc they only truly work in warmer climates than we have in Scotland, even the manufacturers and industry experts say this. Also renewable energy such as solar is unreliable (solar in Scotland as a energy source 🤣) it often get too windy for the wind turbines and the hydro plants are bad for the local ecology which is why we stopped building them. Rechargeable batteries are extremely harmful to the environment and are a fire hazard and we don't have anywhere near enough (or space) for the energy requirements of our country.
So my question is what exactly does jso expect people to do starve and freeze to death to save a planet that we literally can't save on our own?

Brilliantly put and I agree 100%.

For the benefit of some previous posters I'm definitely not a troll but if it was up to me the whole lot of JSO would be in prison. Set of twats.

I feel that all these things are integrated. Mistreatment of animals, humans and the Mother Earth all stem from the same thing.
I guess people can only stretch themselves so far - some people are passionate about animal rights, others about human rights, others about the protection of the rainforest or coral beds or whatever.
I try to shop with a mind to all of it. Blooming hard to always get it right though, and impossible to be perfect. Modern life is a complicated business!

You must have met my mother

I agree with Trying and Polly. I don’t endorse the disruption caused but I can see why they feel driven to it.

But ranting at them is misguided. We all need to adapt and find a solution to this. It’s very weak and playground spouting “but China”
you realise we’ve outsourced most of our manufacturing to them so they are polluting to produce our crap so we are partly to blame for that.

Also many of the people who have brought about change throughout history have been “posh”. If anything it’s more laudable as they benefit from the status quo.

Is set the plural of twats?

Yes.