Inheritance one

[Oculusopen]

GF & GM wrote matching wills about 15 years ago. They split 10% of their estate among all grandchildren - 6 GCs. 90% of estate to be split equally among their 3 DCs: DC1, DC2 & DC3.

A couple of years later (10 years ago) DC1 died leaving behind GC1 & GC2. DC2 & DC3 took good care of GF & GM. GCs also visited regularly but were not involved in day to day care.

DF & GM recently died in quick succession. GC1 will inherit 1/60 th of the estate.

Does this seem right?

Yes you need to see the will, it is what I like PP check so when my FIL did his will I checked it said that if DH pre deceased him it would go directly to our children and my parents have the same

Are you DC3

it keeps coming back to the wording of the will though. That is the starting point and everything else is just speculation

It is not unreasonable to insist on seeing a copy of the will, then you will know for sure. The fact the executor has withheld it looks suspicious, you may want to point this out to her. She will gain nothing from it in the long run, either she's right in which case so be it, or she's wrong which would open a world of pain and could even use up all the money in legal wrangling, which could go on for years.

I’m in a similar position but it’s really awkward to ask for a copy of the will (before probate) without seeming grabby and possibly causing family fall out. If I wait until probate is granted will it be too late? The executor has not been forthcoming which makes me think I have been left out?

The grandchildren of the deceased child should inherit their parents share plus their share of the grandchildrens 10%.

Well I second the pp who stated it will depend on the contents of the will.
An executor who fails to carry out their duty commits a criminal offence. It's the only law content I remember in full.
Please speak to a solicitor.

No it's not too late once probate has been granted.
My understanding is that legally no one other than executor(s) has a right to see the will but beneficiaries can sue the executor if s/he/they have been negligent or fraudulent after probate has been granted.
It would make more sense for open discussions to take place before getting to that point but that may not be possible

www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-you/will-disputes/blog/can-executor-be-sued

Assuming you are DC3 and if DC2 is 'technically' correct that you and they get 45% each:

I'd be unilaterally seeking a variation to mean 'my' extra 15% does indeed go to GC1 and GC2 even if GF and GM intent can never now be known.

If DC2 chooses to not match your kind approach then so be it. I could live with that if it was me (ie DC2 getting more than me).

But I'd make it clear I judged them for it and thought they were doing the wrong thing morally (But equally I would move on and still be a loving sibling moving forward, and also let them know that was my intent).

It would be a cold hearted person in DC2's position to not follow your lead, but as I say, even if they didn't then so be it.

https://www.irwinmitchell.com/personal/probate/probate-guide/beneficiary-rights#:~:text=Technically%2C%20you%20only%20have%20the,the%20executors%20could%20theoretically%20refuse

It's nothing to do with what GC2 thinks! It's what the will says that matters.

My DGP's will was written that it goes directly to their DC, but in the case of one of their DC dying before them, then their share would pass to their DC (the GC).

So, I will inherit my DF's share as he died before his DM and DF.

Your DGP's will seems to be written a little differently, and so I don't know. I think it would be fair that you inherited your DF's share though, but that is just a moral opinion.

Sorry OP, I assumed you were GC1, but that may not be the case.

Hi

It depends on the wording of the Will and if Probate has already been granted, to save any drama with the DC, I would ask the probate office for a copy. If however Probate is some way away (can take over 20weeks from application), then just ask DC (in writing) for a copy of the Will, as Executor, she is supposed to give you regular progress updates etc.

If she is handling Probate herself, she isn't too dim. When most Wills are written professionally, the law firm handling it normally tries to get appointed as Executor, maybe along with a family member. If there is a house to sell, Probate will be needed before it can be sold. If the solicitor IS an Executor, try asking them for a copy of the Will.

So in my Will (written by a solicitor) it says that I leave my estate to be split equally amongst the kids, but should one of them predecease me, if my deceased child has no kids, the money gets split between their siblings but if the deceased has kids (my grandkids), it is given to them. This is pretty standard if professionally written. So you need to see the Will because if this is the case, DC1's kids should get 1/60th plus DC1's share of the estate.

That's not right, you should seek legal advice and contest it.

That's not right, you should seek legal advice and contest it.

The thing is it could be right unless in the will it actually says if one of the DC die before the parents that their share will go to the grandchildren. In the law the DC’s share will go to the other two DC unless stated otherwise.

My parents and DH's parents had/have their will set up that the estate is divided equally among the DC, with the DC sharing with their DC. BUT, if one DC predeceases them, the estate is divided among the remaining children with nothing to the remaining GC or the spouse of the deceased DC.

Whatever the GPs wrote in their will is how it should be done. If they did not specify, then a lawyer needs to give advice as to what is legal for your country.

I can see both sides. On one side, the GC get the deceased parent's share plus what they were "left", which gives them a great deal more than the other GC. The other side, they get what was left to them and the surviving DC split the 90%. I assume the DC that died did not leave a spouse and there is nothing to cover that scenario?

I'm not really sure which way I lean, though probably the second one is the one that, here, would be the legal way if not spelled out otherwise. Either scenario has pitfalls, pressure, positives and negatives.

So, do GC1 and GC2 each get 1/60th?

So, who are you in this tangled web of inheritance? It seems like the GP's in this instance, had about a decade to update their will and fix any inconsistencies.

A lawyer should be able to say what the "rules" are in the UK concerning death of one heir and remaining heirs, and DC2 (the executor) should need to abide by that.

Follow the will - your feelings don't count at all.

I can understand that. I think, in my parent's case, my children would have been hurt if they were just ignored because I had predeceased them. My parents really did not have much, but a token remembrance would have sufficed.

My brother and I were the GC in this scenario, our dad pre-deceased our grandmother. When our grandmother died, it turned out she (almost certainly influenced by my unpleasant aunt who had POA due to her dementia) wrote us out of the will entirely after our dad died. So we ended up with nothing. The estate was split between my grandmother’s other two DC and their children.

If the will specifies 90% of estate to surviving children and 10% to surviving grandchildren then DC2 is correct.

However I agree with PP that the "right" thing to happen would be for the children of DC1 to inherit the grandchild share and the child share. Then each "branch" of the family still has an equitable share.

If DC2 and DC3 agree to a variation of will then this could still happen, even if that's not what the will says.

I'd like to think that in my family, surviving siblings would be thinking of their nieces/nephews and be proposing a variation.

been reading this and everyone has a view.....

all down to wording of the will. that's it.

However, what none has asked, op @Oculusopen are:
1.What ages are dc2 and dc3?
2.What ages are GC1 and GC2?
3.Do dc2 and dc3 have their own children? if so ages? if not, do they plan to have their own kids, or they haven't yet decided?

1. DC2 & DC3 in their 50s
2. GC1 & GC2 in their 30s
3. DC2 has 4 children in their 20s. DC3 has no children.

Nothing to stop the Beneficiaries coming to a Deed of Variation of they all agree.

BUT if you write a will you need to cover ALL Eventualities, that means a 90 year old has to think what happens if my infant great great grandchild predeceases me.

In my will

1. There is a survivorship clause so my beneficiaries need to survive me by 28 days (Think Car Crash, House Fire etc)
2. There is also provision for what happens of they predecease me

there is a will in my family that specifically states that if my brother pre-deceases the testator, his children/wife do not get his share.
My understanding is that if not specified, the money that the late sibling would have received passes to their next of kin- their children.
If your not clear on the wording of the will, get advice from a solicitor.
If you feel that the will is unfair on the GC that is/are the offspring of the late sibling, the two remaining siblings can gift a share to them by executing a deed of variation.

Thank you for answering.
in case discussions for DOV are necessary,

I see why DC2 is grabby (if dc1 share passes to gc1 and gc2 in the Will), because she has 4 kids. But her kids will charge in 10% as well as when dc2 dies. So why should GC 1 and 2 miss out on dc1 share, if not excluded by Will itself?

however, dc3 having no kids, should not be involved in decisions where dc2 wants to justify grabbing more. Dc3 not having kids means 10% is not shared by her kids and dc3 is not complaining or demanding a share from 10% so why dc2 wants to retain dc1’s share?

i asked for ages as GC 1 and 2 have lost parent dc1 so they need all financial help they can get.

dc2 should respect the will and not be grabby!

g cs need a lawyer. CRT will rule as per terms of Will, end of.