Inheritance one

[Oculusopen]

GF & GM wrote matching wills about 15 years ago. They split 10% of their estate among all grandchildren - 6 GCs. 90% of estate to be split equally among their 3 DCs: DC1, DC2 & DC3.

A couple of years later (10 years ago) DC1 died leaving behind GC1 & GC2. DC2 & DC3 took good care of GF & GM. GCs also visited regularly but were not involved in day to day care.

DF & GM recently died in quick succession. GC1 will inherit 1/60 th of the estate.

Does this seem right?

If what DC2 says is correct about the will, I think most fair minded people would want a deed of variation ( not sure if this is the exact wording) so that DC1's children were not disadvantaged and received DC1's original share.
These children have lost their parents earlier than they should have and are losing out because of it, seems so unfair.

A deed of variation can't be made by consensus. You can only legally make changes to your own part of the inheritance. In this instance we don't know whether or not dc1's inheritance is dealt with in the will.
But if it goes back into the pot, dc3 can only make a deed of variation relating to their own inheritance, so could pass the additional 15% they received to dgc1 and 2. Dc2 couldn't be forced to do anything

Actually, a DOV can be done by each beneficiary, to take from their own individual payout, so agreement across the board is not needed. Those who wish to donate some if theur share to GC 1 & 2 can do so, and others can choose not to.

Bearing in mind though, any DOV can later be used against a beneficery who did one, to say it was a deliberate deprevation of assets, should that situation arisen

Good point. So DC3 could give 15% to them, and get the original allocation of 30%. They can’t force DC2 to relinquish any though. At least not rue your expensive legal proceedings with an uncertain outcome. It might be worth nudging them though.

@Oculusopen Does your last but one para in the OP mean that both Grandparents died in quick succession?

Or is there some other sequence of events.

You misunderstand me. I know deeds of variation can be done by each beneficiary on their bit. Where I mean is a family consensus would be helpful here. And it might be achievable. Communication is always worth a try.

Fair enough @Genevieva . And I agree.
You'll see up thread I have advised calmly sitting down and talking. The first step is to see the will which may solve the issue.

Thank you, we are uk based.

It's nothing to do with what DC2 believes. What matters is what the will says, which you will need to get a copy of.

If a beneficiary of a will dies, then that person's share will be distributed to the others in the will, so in this case DC2 and DC3 will get 45% each, then the other 10% will be split between the grandchildren (so 1/60 th). In which case DC2 is absolutely correct.

If the will has a clause that states about the DC dying before the deceased, and the inheritance passing on to their children, then the two children of DC1 will get 15% each, plus their share of the 10%. DC2 and DC3 get 30% each.

Lots of people don't add this clause as they don't see themselves outliving their children. If they didn't change their will once DC1 had died then the money needs to be distributed as per the will.

It might not seem fair, but that's life, and this is why lots of families fall out over money and wills.

What is dc3's position? I mean are they just accepting of what dc2 says? Or do they want to see the will?

Yes Grandparents died a few months apart. I wanted to explain than since original will was written 15 years ago, no changes were made.

DC2 is wrong. The GC should get their parent's share

My DF was a solicitor and had to represent quite a few cases like this.

My strong advice would be that GC should seek legal advice ASAP

Yes, you need a copy of the will. Morally, I think the GC who lost a parent should get the parent's share. But you have to go by what the will says.

The will will eventually be put online, when probate is granted, I think, so you can check the exact wording. You can also do a deed of variation to change something that doesn't seem right. So if DC2 and DC3 agree that the will isn't fair, they can agree to change it so each child of DC1 get 15% plus a share of the GC 10%, and DC2 and DC3 get 30% rather than 45%. If DC2 won't agree to that, DC3 can still do a deed of variation reducing their 45% to 30% and giving 7.5% to each of DC1's kids.

Ask for a copy of the will and then see a solicitor

• a gift in a Will to a child or remoter issue of the testator or testatrix (IHTM12001) will not lapse if the dead beneficiary leaves issue (children) who are alive at the testator’s death (in England & Wales, the Wills Act/ S33 as amended by the Administration of Justice Act 1982/ S19; in Northern Ireland, article 22 of the Wills and Administration Proceedings (NI) Order 1994). This does not apply where the gift is a life interest.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm12084

You cannot get a copy of the will until probate is granted. If it has not yet been granted and you have reason to believe the executor may not distribute the estate in accordance with the will and they will not provide a copy then I suggest you consider issuing a caveat. This will prevent the executor from getting probate without you being informed, and will force communications. Of course the best thing to do is request a copy of the will first, if that has not been done. Here's some info (I have no affiliation with the solicitors - it is just the first thing I found online to give you the info)

www.wilsonbrowne.co.uk/guides/what-is-a-caveat/#:~:text=A%20Caveat%20prevents%20a%20Grant,issued%20by%20a%20Probate%20Registry.&text=There%20is%20a%20real%20concern,a%20copy%20of%20a%20Will.

That's awful. The 30% that would have gone to GC1 and GC2's parent should be split between them.

It made the children feel like they weren't family.

Similar happened when my late grandmother died, except there were no bequests to the grandchildren.

Six children, one predeceased the grandparents. The will didn't specify about remainder to children of a deceased child, but of the five remaining siblings only one argued that the estate should be divided five ways. The other four insisted that the estate be divided 6 ways with 1/6 being divided between the 3 children of their deceased sibling. The four won the day and it meant the world to my cousins that their late mother hadn't been 'forgotten' by the family even though she herself wasn't alive to benefit from the estate.

I’m a solicitor and had to spend a year at law school doing a a wills paper with scenarios like this as exam questions!

It is 100% down to how the will is written. End of. Doesn’t matter what people think is fair or what should happen. The will will either provide for the child’s share to pass to the grandchildren or it won’t.

It is a very common oversight in off the shelf (eg from WH Smith) wills for this scenario to not be anticipated. As my father predeceased his parents I’m quite personally sensitive to it too. It’s one of the key flaws I look for when friends/family as me to look at their draft wills - so OP please do be prepared for the relevant grandchildren to only get the grandchild distribution. Conversely, if the will is written such that the deceased child’s share goes to the grandchildren then that is a cut and dried case and the estate should be administered appropriately.

edited to add: the IHT guidance posted above explains when the gift doesn’t lapse and that is spot on but it all keeps coming back to the wording of the will eg it will lapse if it has wording like “those of my children alive at my death”.

it keeps coming back to the wording of the will though. That is the starting point and everything else is just speculation.

I’m my family the share of the deceased child who pre deceased their parents will go to the grandchildren. I think that’s the law; the executor has a legal obligation to distribute it as the law not to sneakily share it sideways with their sibling. If the executor has nothing to hide they should send you a copy of the will.

Hoping it's written in favour of the gc OP & if not that the dc request a DOV. Hope you can see the will asap

Appoint your own solicitor and get them to find out the contents of the will. A solicitor's letter to the Executor will often unlock an awkward person who isn't playing by the rules and isn't being transparent with the beneficiaries.