Insomniacs and ex-insomniacs - where are you?!

[GoldfishSoup]

I can’t take any more!!!

Im late 30s. My insomnia started as a young teen and has never gone away. I’ve done it all; no caffeine, exercise, calming things, no phones/tv, music, no music, hypnosis, eating banana or kiwis before bed, taking all the different types of magnesium, counselling - nothing works!!!
I even wake up when I take Nytol. The only thing that made me feel better was amitriptyline but I stopped that when I got pregnant and didn’t go back on it because I don’t want to be rely on pills, but what else can you do? I’m exhausted. I’m beyond exhausted. I read that suicide rates of insomniacs are hugely increased and I am reaching the point where I understand why. I don’t want to live like this, it affects my entire life in a negative manner. I get around 3-4 hours of sleep a night.

I’m trying to make sure my gut flora is healthy currently to see if that works; I have a good diet already but am trying to have probiotics where I can and read that prebiotics may help too.

But PLEASE if you have found something that helps, something that helps you sleep. I’m not awake stressing about things, my brain is just up there like ‘Hey, what are all the words to that 80s song that you heard once about ten years ago? I know, let’s figure them out’ or ‘why don’t humans have retractable anuses?!’

Im so miserable. I imagine my life with energy, not dreading every night and it would be a dream. Instead it’s a living nightmare.

No caffeine after midday + magnesium glycinate! Makes a HUGE difference.

oh and not eating too late

Melatonin patches you can buy off amazon and get next day delivery, or depending on where you stand on cannabis products....you could use a private prescriber, I get CBD oil. 0.3ml a night, Knocks me out within half hour, sleep straight through, and i don't feel groggy in the mornings either. Its Fixed my insomnia and sleep issues due to a chronic pain condition

Insomniac since teenager.
Kirkland sleep aid is the only thing that helps me sleep deeper and longer, I get about 6 - 7 hours with little waking up.
I have also been taking Trazodone for the last 6 months, which is a sedating antidepressant. I'm not sure it really does anything for my sleep but doesn't stop me sleeping. Other types effect me badly, I got almost no sleep on SSRIs.
Also earplugs, blackout blind and listen to a podcast when going to sleep. That helps, I usually drop off and wake up when it ends. Put my ear plugs in and go back to sleep quickly.
On balance, I have decided the risks from taking Kirkland sleep aid every night, is better than the depression I get when sleeping 3- 4 hours a night. I don't usually feel too tired, but its mentally awful.

I take magnesium and melatonin but it's hit and miss if they work. I felt like I slept better when I did intermittent fasting (16:8 roughly), I've stopped it for other reasons and couldn't tell you whether it was the fasting, the time I stopped eating or both but there was a definite improvement.

Phenergan worked for me but mine was short term. Insomnia was an absolute killer for me.

Hi OP, I feel for you.

I wore one of those watches that analyses your sleep for about a year (the watch was a cheapo and maybe not even accurate) but it told me that I'd slept, e.g. 7 hours when I thought I'd slept about 4. Often my lying with eyes closed (twisting and turning) was counted as sleep. Honestly, knowing that made me feel a lot better. I decided I was going to tell myself that I had slept well as long as I had been in bed for enough hours. To avoid boredom, and to avoid mulling over life, I listen to audiobooks.

I'd had terrible trouble sleeping ever since I was a teen (now in my 50s). But I'm more or less cured now (except, I've discovered, when there's a full moon!). I try not to have too many "rules" or "hacks" because it only puts too much pressure on and ends up having the opposite effect. If possible,

• no social media/screen before bed
• try to go to bed at roughly the same time
• get up at same time every day (this is the crucial thing, I think, although I don't always manage it)
• audiobooks to fall asleep or to pass the time if I'm having trouble
• mindset (I tell myself sleep is nice but resting is enough)

Like another poster, I listen to an audiobook I've read many times before, wearing a sleep headband, which is more comfortable than earbuds. I set a 15-min timer on Audible, and reset if necessary, sometimes several times but I usually fall asleep within the first 15 minutes - it astonishes me that I can even write that! If that doesn't work (if I've already had to reset several times), I change audiobooks and listen to something more captivating that I have to concentrate on (lying down, eyes closed, following a good story is far better than lying mulling over things in your life). Sometimes I end up listening for an hour or two (usually, as I said, around full moon) but eventually fall asleep. It's not ideal but it doesn't happen very often any more.

These days, and I don't want to flout it or anything, but I sometimes (shock, horror) even wake up before my alarm feeling refreshed!!!💪For me, mindset is really the only thing that's changed.

Good luck! Here are some Zs for you: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
😴

From a recovered insomniac (and mostly pinched from a sleep psychiatrist, I think he was - it was from an academic lecture):

Have a consistent wake up time (not necessarily bedtime) every day. Every day. No lie ins. No difference on weekends. This sets your circadian rhythm.

The bedroom is for two things only - sleep and sex. Don't get dressed in your bedroom. Don't make phone calls. Don't work. Sleep or sex. That's it.

Go to bed a maximum of half an hour before you usually fall asleep. Eliminate the lying awake period. Insomniacs (understandably) HATE this advice, but it's the best advice. Once you're falling asleep better you can move bedtime earlier gradually.

Good luck. I know your pain. It can get better!

I have never slept well but have truly had insomnia for about 25 years. I sympathise with everyone in the same boat, it is soul destroying. I am worried about all the long term effects of not sleeping, but most of all I worry about Dementia. Both my parents have Dementia and I have witnessed over the years what a cruel and destructive disease it is.
No matter what I try, I have difficulty falling asleep and I wake numerous times throughout the night, sometimes for one or two hours, which means that I often only have between two & three hours a night.
I have been prescribed Phenergan and Lorazepam but both of these are linked to Dementia (and many other unpleasant side effects in long term use) and I realised that they had stopped working for me after a while anyway. I have tried every single thing that has been suggested to me or that I have read about, from acupuncture to zen buddhist meditation, including hypnotherapy, eating walnuts and kiwis, CBD, vitamins, essential oils and so on.
I am currently taking Magnesium glycinate and Montmorency cherry capsules, which did seem to make a small difference, but my dad is close to the end of his life and receiving hospice at home care, which is sad and stressful, so that may be working against the remedies.
Someone did once say to me that if you ask someone with no sleep problems how they sleep well, they just shrug and say they don't really think about it but if you ask an insomniac then they will list every remedy and trick in the book. I think that previous posters may have hit the nail on the head by suggesting that we abandon all of the sleep hygiene routines, self hypnosis, sounds of the sea cds, essential oils, vitamins, fruits and nuts etc because so much focus may actually be a self fulfilling prophesy? Incidentally, if I listen to a guided sleep meditation during the day, I can fall asleep in minutes but if I listen at night then I am wide awake the whole way through 🙄

That's interesting, thanks. I've tried not taking the melatonin but usually give in after an hour or so, then I drop off. Possibly placebo effect however!

One other thing I'm sure you must've tried is getting in sunlight as soon as waking up.. easy in summer when I can have my coffee in garden, not easy in winter. Supposed to set the body clock. Who knows.

Another one to recommend Kirkland Sleep Aid (an antihistamine). I take a whole one and am not aware of long term side effects (certainly no worse than the long-term side effects of not sleeping!) Like you I am a long time insomniac. The Kirkland helps though. Sending empathy!

Kirkland's Sleep Aid and/or Melatonin. Worked for me.
I had chronic, hideous insomnia at the start of peri. It was terrible. Going on antidepressants and HRT cured it.

My insomnia comes in waves but started as a teen where I'd be awake until 2 or 3am unable to sleep.

Now I listen to educational audio books. That way I either learn something (yay!) Or it's so dull I fall asleep (yay) which is a win win situation.

By biggest issue is waking up again at around 4am and unable to sleep. Not found anything that helps other than breaking the cycle if I can't go back to sleep after 30 mins. Or I turn audiobook back on but that annoys my DH!

I've never slept a full night in my adult life. Tried everything, but it's so bad at the moment I'm signed off work. I'm hoping to start hrt soon
I've also ordered melatonin...
OP, have you considered that you may have ADHD/ADD ?? MY GP thinks I probably have it. However, there's a ridiculous waiting list to be assessed for it. All the private clinics in my area have closed their waiting lists. It's so frustrating. If you have a diagnosis then you can get melatonin on prescription, without a diagnosis, you can't. I just want to sleep 😴 it's exhausting just being exhausted all the time .

Melatonin only thing that really works. All the other tips never worked- I wasted years on other nonsense.

Can you sleep in in the morning? I function on very little sleep but could sleep in in morning if I didn't have responsibilities. Every 2 ish weeks I basically sleep through a Saturday. Do you have someone to take baby/child out the house and let you sleep?

For actually getting to sleep (other than meds) I swear by an audiobook. One you like and a story you have heard before. Nothing new and exciting you will be drawn into. I listen to the same books over and over and just push play when I wake in the night I don't need to rewind to find my place etc. Podcasts work too or music if it keeps your attention and draws you from your own thoughts. But I think it's essential that you can sit in that half awake half asleep phase we spend hours in before we actually drift off and not plane pulled back to wakefulness because you have lost track of the story if that makes sense.

I also think the sleep hygiene stuff is a load of crap for some people. I brush my teeth early evening as that disgusting mint taste wakes me up. Showers and baths wake me up. Or rather the drying and getting dressed does. I literally strip my jeans off and get into bed with an audiobook no faf no routine and it's not ideal but better than when I do the whole sleep hygiene

The only thing that really worked for me longer term was sleep restriction therapy, where you limit your sleep, always get up at the same time and gradually increase your time in bed as your sleeping improves. Some info here: https://www.sleepfoundation.org/insomnia/treatment/sleep-restriction-therapy

As @PurpleBugz says, I have given up trying to confirm to a modern societal expectation of when I should sleep.

I was getting very stressed about not being able to sleep and dragging myself out of bed at 'normal' getting up time and then I heard a lecture by a sleep historian who said the idea of going to bed in the evening and sleeping until the morning is a modern one and in the past people went to bed much earlier (I could easily fall asleep at around 7pm) and then woke up around midnight and did more jobs/work/had sex and then went back to sleep a few hours later. This was a revelation to me as I am wide awake between 1am and 5am and then I can sleep like a log until 10-11am.

So now whenever I can I do that (fortunately my job allows me to be flexible a lot of the time) and if I have to get up at say 7am for an early (normal!) start I just don't go to bed.

My father was the same. I have just stopped worrying about it and fortunately my children are adults so can take care of themselves. It does mean I am generally going to bed around the time my husband is getting up but we manage.

I also find audio books are a great help to relax me and put me to sleep when I am ready. I just don't think my body produces melatonin at what we now consider 'normal' sleeping times! But I have let go of the guilt of being 'lazy' lying in bed in the mornings and most of my colleagues know I work in the middle of the night!

Mirtazapine! I have gone from 3 hours of broken hell sleep to 8/9 hours totally deep sleep. It is a miracle!

I'm only awake now because of the cat!

Audiobooks definitely work for me, in fact, I stopped listening to new ones at bedtime because I would always conk out and lose my place!

Sending you sleepy vibes OP. Is there any chance you could get signed off for a couple of weeks go remove the anxiety about sleeping?

I use sleeping pills but I'm not doing well at the moment. I still fall asleep and wake up at unreasonable times. I take 2 tablets at the moment and have been sleepwalking

I used to differ from terrible insomnia and do so from a young age (12 or so). It was debilitating. Now i sleep the best I ever have (now 50). The things i do are:

• only two cups of tea before 11am and no caffeine afterwards.
• run 4 times a week (currently training for an ultra marathon so weekly mileage about 52km). I also train for triathlons so bike and swimming too depending on where I am in the season.
• completely cut back on alcohol to maybe a few beers a week. No wine, that definitely means no sleep for me.
• magnesium powder every night.
• magnesium oil spray on my legs and tummy every night.
• sleep mask.
• ear plugs.

Sometimes I regress and then I look at melatonin. If it's a bad phase then I see my doctor and have a months supply of temazipam which I keep for emergency. That's about once a year or so.

So, lots of exercise. No booze and dark/quiet. Serious game changer for me in terms of sleep!! But I love running so it's easy.

I was going to say I find progesterone helps my sleep enormously- I'm only awake now cos I overheated sleeping deeply in a thick duvet... I was on Utrogesten now it's Gerpetrex - no idea why brand changed but it seems the same

Wow, so many people with sleep struggles! I’m so sorry to hear this, it’s rubbish. It’s so life affecting. I could cry this morning but I haven’t got the energy.

I’ll have a proper read of people’s suggestions over a cup of tea, but a few things:

Yes I think I have ADHD
No I can’t take time off work because I work for myself
I can’t nap during the day as I have small children or work!

I’m so determine to beat this and be one of those people who doesn’t have sleep issues, so going to try some of the suggestions here and see how we get on.

I'm here. It's 12:40 am where I am now.