Insomniacs and ex-insomniacs - where are you?!

[GoldfishSoup]

I can’t take any more!!!

Im late 30s. My insomnia started as a young teen and has never gone away. I’ve done it all; no caffeine, exercise, calming things, no phones/tv, music, no music, hypnosis, eating banana or kiwis before bed, taking all the different types of magnesium, counselling - nothing works!!!
I even wake up when I take Nytol. The only thing that made me feel better was amitriptyline but I stopped that when I got pregnant and didn’t go back on it because I don’t want to be rely on pills, but what else can you do? I’m exhausted. I’m beyond exhausted. I read that suicide rates of insomniacs are hugely increased and I am reaching the point where I understand why. I don’t want to live like this, it affects my entire life in a negative manner. I get around 3-4 hours of sleep a night.

I’m trying to make sure my gut flora is healthy currently to see if that works; I have a good diet already but am trying to have probiotics where I can and read that prebiotics may help too.

But PLEASE if you have found something that helps, something that helps you sleep. I’m not awake stressing about things, my brain is just up there like ‘Hey, what are all the words to that 80s song that you heard once about ten years ago? I know, let’s figure them out’ or ‘why don’t humans have retractable anuses?!’

Im so miserable. I imagine my life with energy, not dreading every night and it would be a dream. Instead it’s a living nightmare.

Definitely! Even though I have a routine, I actually spend a few hours sat on my phone or scrolling shit on TikTok before sleep - which goes totally against all the recommendations but it works! I think because I end up thinking about whatever random rabbit hole I've fallen down as opposed to anything that could possibly worry me lol.

You are me. Absolutely nothing has ever worked for me since I was 17. Now I'm 43 and peri it's worse than ever. I'm close to to having to quit my job because I can't function at all .

I don't have an exact bedtime scheduled either. I go to sleep when my eyes feel tired.

I'm more alert in the evenings. It's good for one thing because I could easily stay up all night if there was a party or an emergency. And I'd never fall asleep when I was driving. But it takes me a long time to settle some nights.

Oh love, I’m so sorry. It’s so life restricting isn’t it. I hope you find a solution that works for you.

I've had intermittent insomnia for forty years. The one thing I've found that is almost guaranteed to switch off the annoying, incessant voice is to listen to an audiobook of a book I've read many times before. Currently it's a Bill Bryson book- I find the reader has a soothing tone, and because I know the book well I'm not waiting for an exciting bit or anything. I use a headband thing with earphones in rather than airpods or similar.

Also- if you can, try mixing up how you're sleeping. For example (and I know it's weird but...) turn upside down in the bed, so your head is where your feet normally go.

And give in to sleep when your body demands it. If that means having an afternoon nap (and it's feasible), have the nap. I've found that denying my body sleep when it thinks it needs it creates issues in my head at 'bedtime'.

I'm here!! Daridorexant is a new drug recently approved in the UK but not yet available from all GPs. I buy it online from prescriptiondoctor, brand name Quiviviq, about £86 for a month's supply. It is non addictive and has v few side effects. It has changed my life! NHS are restricting it to people who have already tried Cognitive Behahaviour Therapy, I tried CBT in lockdown (a private online course) but didn't work as I'm convinced menopause broke my ability to sleep, as before, I could sleep on a washing line and live a pretty stress free life. Try it all you insomniacs if you can get it!

I don't either - I always go up to bed about the same time, but some nights I'm fast asleep at 10, other nights it's 1am. I feel less pressured if there's no specific "time" in my head. Sounds weird but it works!

Do you know what.. my grandma had insomnia all her life due to trauma. She took a sleeping pill every night for her entire adult life till she died at 95. Of course she was addicted but she managed to enjoy her life.

400mg of active magnesium bisglycinate (4 x massive pills), 10mg melatonin and also Utrogestan (with food), before bed (apart from 200mg of the mag earlier in the day)

I take mirtazapine which is an anti depressant which just happens to help with insomnia.

I've used melatonin and it did work for me to help me stay asleep. But, the biggest thing that "fixed" my insomnia was weirdly going to sleep at 8.30pm. I sleep 8.30pm until around 4am now and I hadn't had a solid night's sleep in 3 years beforehand. It seems I was just trying to force my body to sleep at the wrong times? If I try 9.30pm now, I wake up every hour. Has to be between 8.30-9. Weird but it works!

I can get to sleep ok, but wake up millions of time, always up for the day before 5am. It’s exhausting

Another long term insomniac (milder end of the scale) here - I've never had much luck with over the counter insomnia meds and admittedly haven't gone as far as getting prescriptions. One thing I have found works to disrupt the racing thoughts is to breathe in for four counts, hold for seven counts and breathe out for eight counts. The weird timings mean you keep thinking about it rather than just drifting back into the racing thoughts and I find it knocks me out before I know it. Worth a try at least!

Ex chronic insomnia sufferer here. I suffered for many years, and I no longer do. I had tried everything, including sleeping tablets which became less and less effective over time.

My best advice to you is to stop every single preparatory routine. Stop trying to tire yourself out, don't take any sleep aid supplements, watch as much TV as you want in bed, don't bother with essential oils, fuck hypnosis, basically ignore every single piece of sleep hygiene advice you've ever received. Stop giving a shit whether you sleep or not. Actively make staying awake all night your goal. The less focus you put on it, the easier it will come. The more attention you give it, the more powerful it gets, as with any anxiety.
The only things I would recommend avoiding are 1. Looking at the time at any point during the night if you're feeling anxious and 2. Caffeine, that is obviously best to avoid for anyone at all before bed!

I strongly, strongly recommend having a look on the Insomnia Coach website and signing up for the free emails the bloke offers (much more detailed than the advice I've just given). He's an ex insomniac too and is very highly recommended among us. He does also offer a paid personalised service but I was too skint to go down that route.

There's the blackout curtains, the cooler temperature, the No Lights at All Upstairs rule because the slightest hint causes me to spring awake from a position of near collapse from exhaustion, the no caffeine was tried, but I get sleepy after coffee, so that made exactly zero difference, the having the same routine every night, the getting up at the same time even though you feel like you're dying inside every single day, the making sure that my eyes don't close for a second when absolutely knackered because that microsleep will cause a minimum of 2 days without sleeping at all. There was the totally ineffectual antihistamines, the benzos that did nothing on day 1, 2 or 3 and then I got pissed off and refused to take them any longer than that. I also tried the working weird hours as an afternoon sleep is so refreshing - until I got stressed at having to go up there and lie down and stopped being able to sleep then, too. And the 'I'll go to bed when I'm tired'/no routine routine that means I'm still up when it's time to leave for work.

It's been like it since I was a baby. It ain't gonna change. After about 6-9 months, I'll sleep for longer (used to be a whole Saturday until 5pm, now it's a whole hour or two until 7.100am) and then I won't sleep at all the next night, maybe get 3 hours the following 5 days and hopefully within a fortnight I'll be back to 4 hours again.

I live for the days where I don't actually have to do anything important, as that's the nearest thing to a rest.

I didn’t have any problem sleeping for 8 hours plus until the day I turned 50 . I’m 67 now and haven’t had a single night since then where I’ve slept for more than 2 hours at a time. However tired I am. Sometimes I fall asleep straightway about 11, but then I. Awake at 1. Or I don’t fall asleep til 2 or 3 am and then wake at about 5 am.
Ive tried absolutely everything suggested on this thread, including melatonin, the no caffeine., the meditation, the books, the pills, the no screens after 6 or 7 etc.
Absolutely nothing has “ cured” me.
I can only be grateful though that I didn’t have insomnia when I had a young family and was at work.
lets hope we find a magic cure.
ps I know it’s after 7 and I’m on a screen but this is unusual for me.

I’m current under a neurologist for an unrelated condition. I mentioned my dependence on phenergan for insomnia (nightly for well over 6 years). He said that he would prefer for me to take phenergan every night than to get a decent nights sleep, rather than not sleep. I’ve tried so many times to come off of the phenergan. I can’t. I just don’t sleep more than 3-4 hours a night without it 😢

I also take magnesium glycerate, 10mg melatonin and 2 Utrogestans but I've now dropped the melatonin and it's made no difference. In fact sleeping slightly better and not feeling so groggy in morning.

Audiobooks made a massive difference to me (insomniac since my teens.) something gentle without sudden loud voices that you already know well.
Also calm app / deep sleep release meditation and pukka nighttime tea.
But really it’s about relaxing which is very hard to do when you’re worried about not sleeping!
I’ve had problems on and off for over 25 years but much better the last 10. When I have a bad patch and start panicking I remind myself that I always come out of the bad patch eventually!

Ooooft sorry to read this. I try to stay away from even thinking I have insomnia as I've managed it well since I reached my 30s. In fact, I told myself that once I reached 30 I would stop having insomnia. (Mine began as a kid, being terrified of the night and as a teen becoming deeply interested in examining the process of falling asleep.)

I tell myself that I now just don't sleep well sometimes, I still have nights of no sleep but I can predict them. Travel, having to get up any earlier than usual, hormonal fluctuations affect me too, but instead of it being one bad night begets several bad nights, is usually just one or two bad nights. Just so much better. Long story short, I guess this could be considered a form of CBT that helped which I did learn about in my 20s so maybe was influenced by it. But I absolutely hated people giving me their (unsolicited) solutions.

Another thing that (sometimes) helps me is concentrating on visual thinking instead of verbal. And on nights that I can't sleep at all I listen to a tv series (the same tv series on repeat for about 15 years) which is simultaneously boring yet distracting. Sometimes it all just makes me feel sick so I'd be better getting up instead. But then I'm so desperate to sleep I feel I'm ruining any tiny chance. The last time (a few months ago) I discussed insomnia in detail out loud I couldn't sleep for a week. I'll try cleanse my brain!

Hmmmmm, it sounds really tough OP. How about trying to learn something new and totally different - a language in a foreign alphabet such as Greek or Mandarin, ancient philosophy, musical theory and harmony, a difficult novel by James Joyce or Proust? . These will all put me to sleep and they are special interests! Just suggesting!

I've been an insomniac since I was 18 and I'm now 66. It has fucked my brain. I've tried everything known to man and some things work for a while and then stop (amitriptyline, for example).

I'm sorry I can't offer anything but sympathy. It's hell.

I had some quetiapine left from a few years ago when i was desperate for sleep and the doc prescribed them.
I would take half a tablet at 1am. I could always fall asleep but would wake after 4-5 hours which wasn't enough. By setting my alarm and taking it at 1am I'd get another 3-4 hours and feel great.
Mirtazapine is another medication you can take but you need only to take a quarter tablet. It is an antidepressant, however the effect of making you sleep is only with very small amounts. Unfortunately it also makes you very hungry.
Quiviviq worked a bit for me but I would sometimes wake early and it wasn't strong enough to send me back to sleep. But worth a try.
At the moment I take an anti anxiety medication and that is helping a bit and should have no negative side effects.

I'm a lifelong insomniac.
Recently I have found that a combination of valerian, melatonin, theanine, magnesium bisglycinate, muscle relaxants and antihistamines helps. It's not a guarantee, but so far it's worked more often than not. You may need to experiment to find the right combination.
There is no shame in taking pills. You have a health problem and it's okay to treat it. Amitriptyline isn't addictive, so there's no worry there.
Gabapentin is a drug prescribed for nerve pain which also helps people sleep. It is not addictive, and unlike the amitriptyline, you probably won't gain weight.
GABA and glycine help my daughter, who is also an insomniac.

That's awful! Have you tried the latest hypnotic? Not sure if it's in the UK or by what name it is sold as there. Here it's called Davigo. I am extremely resistant to other sleeping medications, but it put me out. Personally, I hate the way hypnotics feel, so I stopped taking it.