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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ukrainian mum - is this reasonable or unreasonable from “work coach”

44 replies

Midlifebaby · 16/07/2024 21:57

Hi mums - I’m looking for some advice please (and a reality check to see if I need to calm down as I think this situation is unreasonable and it may be making me somewhat unreasonable too - I’m definitely lit up 😝)
My DH and I have sponsored and hosted a number of Ukrainian women and children under the visa program, and one of the families we have become very close to have just moved into their own place after being with us for 2 years.

The mum had a professional job, but did not speak English which she has been learning (taking 2 different college courses at the same time to try to expedite things). She has a 3y old and a teenager.

it took her a long time to find a job, but she found one that uses her professional capabilities and required her native languages (Russian and Ukrainian) She is coming towards the end of her 3m probation and things are going well although the company is very much a clock watching environment, woth fixed breaks(not paid) and specific hours. It takes her about an hour of walk/bus/walk to get there, and will take about 1h.15m from her new home. Her initial contract was for 16 hours a week, and they were good enough to increase to 18 to get her child care covered 85% as she didn’t get the job before the time to get the funded hours when her LO turned 3. To work 3 days (2 long 1 short) her LO is in 2 different nurseries.

For the past 2 years, she has been required to go to the job center every week, although sometimes her appointments are changed to a phone call at short notice.
even to travel there and back, wastes so much time (but I know everyone does it!) I queried it once and I was told it’s so she gets the support available, but they don’t actually do anything helpful as she immediately enrolled in English classes and the “coming to England skills classes” and they have to get a translator who isn’t available 50% of the time.

Last week, when I was helping her finalise her move to a rented property, she told me her “job coach” has told her she needs to continue to apply for jobs, find more income, and if she does not, then she will be kicked off UC. I wrote in her journal asking to join todays call/meeting, to understand so I could explain it to her. She has no other income, and we are hoping that UC will assist in her rent payments although she only moved this past weekend so that’s being processed.
Today she went to the job center and the coach refused to let her come in for the appointment, and insisted it had to be on the phone (on the same building) and he had to call and wait for a translator - then he flat refused to call me and told her under no circumstances would he speak to anyone but her (she got so stressed she couldn’t understand anything he was saying ). He further told her she should get a different job (as if getting a job is easy! Work more even though she has a 3y old and has just moved house this past weekend so has to find new childcare before school nursery starts in Sept - but even then, it’s nursery, no wraparound care is available!)
oh mums - I’ve gone off now and I can’t see straight.
is this guy an arse or am I being unreasonable that I think that UC is to help working people work, stay off the poverty line, and provide support while raising small kids (and bigger ones too)

bloody hell, being a mum is hard, especially if you have to do it solo, in a new country which is friendly and hostile at the same time!

What should I tell her? I have no clue and she is barely functioning due to the pressure.
UABU : preschoolers can do full long days in childcare even if the mum is on minimum wage - it’s the system (insert helpful advice on how to find funded full day care for a 3 y old and this is how to cope)
UANBU: she has to work X amount of hours or earnings, and this is what she should tell that jobsworth (insert helpful advice here)

if you’ve even read this far you are my hero xxx

OP posts:
Fidgety31 · 16/07/2024 22:12

I think her being Ukrainian doesn’t change her work commitments with UC. But I am pretty sure that she is expected to work up to 30 hrs a week or doing work related activity - job searches etc ….

IClaudine · 16/07/2024 22:19

I have no idea of the answer, but the advisor sounds like a really nasty person.

ana7887 · 16/07/2024 22:25

Weekly appointments at job centre is usual for Ukrainians. Suggesting to look for a different job is just smth they need to say if she isn't working enough. Although I thought 18 hrs was a minimum, I pretty sure that's what JC has told my mum (she is on same visa type)...
I was able to attend one of the first meetings with JC, but maybe that's because I am a relative or maybe because it was face to face, not sure...
Any chance she can ask for a different work coach if she isn't comfortable with the one she has now?

Gingerkittykat · 16/07/2024 22:33

How much does she earn a month?

The AET (where you are not expected to work more hours) is £892 per month. Has she had this amount show on her statement as wages yet?

The work coach was totally out of line telling her she could get kicked off UC if she doesn't up her earnings.

Anothnamechang · 16/07/2024 22:41

Although not Ukrainian, I was a single parent working part time& studying full time. Childcare was a nightmarish expense and my universal credit advisor told me to increase my hours or risk being sanctioned.

I called in and complained as my studies were to enhance my career. I was told that I had been advised wrong and to continue as is! Maybe give the main call centre a call.

UnitedOps · 16/07/2024 22:42

A family friend has being unemployed for a few months and is receiving UC (luckily has recently found a job- should start soon). UC “coaches”/“advisors” have being absolutely terrible. No sympathy, no empathy, no interpersonal skills whatsoever. The family friend queried re funding about a potential course, they had no idea- couldn’t even be bothered to find out the answer. Whilst I have no suggestions re what to do with UC, I can absolutely sympathise with your experience.

Blueberry40 · 16/07/2024 22:44

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9rzvwrn30ko#:~:text=Universal%20credit%20claimants%20must%20seek%2018%20hours%20work

According to this 18 hrs is in line with the minimum requirement- why are they insisting she has to have more? Has she definitely communicated to them that her hours have increased to 18? It sounds like they are still under the impression she is on 16 hours and this is why they’re pushing her to increase them.

Woman working in a store cupboard

Universal credit changes: Claimants must now seek 18 hours work

Changes to welfare rules mean universal credit claimants must look for ways to earn more than before.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9rzvwrn30ko#:~:text=Universal%20credit%20claimants%20must%20seek%2018%20hours%20work

Exworkcoach · 16/07/2024 22:51

Nobody is allowed into a lot of the job centres this week because G4S (who provide the security) are on strike, so that’s why you’d have been refused entry.

As I understand it (and it has been a few years so apologies if I get this wrong), once the youngest child turns 3 the requirement is to be working 30hpw. So yes she will still have to attend appointments and be looking for something with more hours.

Farrant · 16/07/2024 23:00

A family member is in similar situation. Welcome to UC. She has a 3.5 yr old and a 5 year old. Recently divorced. She works 20 hours but needs to go to the job centre fortnightly as she needs to up her hours.

Supersimkin7 · 16/07/2024 23:07

This is awful but I’m slightly seeing where the nasty adviser comes from.

No one gets far on part time NMW with 3 people to support. They’ll be skint.

She does need to up her game and I’d be looking for a better paid job sooner rather than later.

Ivehearditbothways · 16/07/2024 23:16

She’ll be on the bones of her arse if she doesn’t work more hours; that’s the reality. They won’t prop her up if she doesn’t stick to her commitments, which include working 30 hours a week. That’s just the reality. She needs to work more; they won’t prop her up.

It doesn’t really matter what we think of it, or if we agree or disagree or any of that. What matters is that she needs to do it, so if you’re helping her then help her with that.

Miley1967 · 16/07/2024 23:19

The AET is £892 a month. If she doesn't earn this she will be expected to look for more hours. She won't be kicked off UC, she may be sanctioned if they don't feel she is work searching enough. Sounds like she may be fairly close to earning that though?

Livelovebehappy · 16/07/2024 23:27

Her being from Ukraine is irrelevant here. The rules are the rules I guess, and she needs to up her hours. Would be better for her too if she focused hard on her English language classes as that will create more opportunities. I would imagine her English should be pretty decent if she’s been attending classes for two years?

Midlifebaby · 16/07/2024 23:29

She is earning minimum wage for 18 hours, so right at the AET amount. She hasn’t been there long and her child’s nursery was closed twice at short notice for infection cleaning, she has no back up so she had to call in and miss work (she caught up some of the hours but not all of them as the nursery couldn’t offer alternative care) but in general, she should meet that threshold and maybe even get a few more hours in September when she can use the school nursery (no wraparound available but it’s full school days at least)
I’m a mum but not a single mum, and thankfully not on a low income. Talk about a humbling eye opener - having responsibilities for a little human is a massive task and our society does not make it easy for women (and parents in general a bit this is mumsnet so I’ll admit bias to mums 😻)

OP posts:
Midlifebaby · 16/07/2024 23:34

Thanks for the comments - I was surprised that the firm she is working for is paying her so little, but I’ve heard a few others (mainly those on refugee visas ) also accept the salary offered without challenging it. Any advice for politely querying pay levels? I think they are so worried about losing the jobs and being back to square one that they just say ok and try not to rock the boat. And that partly comes from not having language confidence and not having a support system, and having her heart in another country (with her husband, parents, etc)

thanks again for your good advice and comments

OP posts:
ThisNoisyTealLurker · 16/07/2024 23:39

about 8 years ago I was a single mum of 2, working 25 hours a week. I got a message saying I had to see a work coach about upping my hours or my UC would be stopped. I went in for my appointment to be told I was doing sufficient hours and that they couldn’t understand why I’d been called in! Sometimes the communication is appalling and so I’d ask to see another work coach.

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2024 23:48

Yes this is the Job Advisor system which is adhorent and staffed by jobs worth arseholes who are beaucratic Hitlers who get off on the power trip of making lives miserable.

They have no concept of a lack of transport options. Nor restricted language skills. Or anything vaguely human.

HelenaWaiting · 17/07/2024 00:08

You can take a friend or relative with you to Work Coach meetings and they are not allowed to refuse. I would be making a formal complaint about this - and next time he decides to be bullying and uncooperative, advise her to ask him to put what he has said in writing.

AbraAbraCadabra · 17/07/2024 04:17

Midlifebaby · 16/07/2024 23:29

She is earning minimum wage for 18 hours, so right at the AET amount. She hasn’t been there long and her child’s nursery was closed twice at short notice for infection cleaning, she has no back up so she had to call in and miss work (she caught up some of the hours but not all of them as the nursery couldn’t offer alternative care) but in general, she should meet that threshold and maybe even get a few more hours in September when she can use the school nursery (no wraparound available but it’s full school days at least)
I’m a mum but not a single mum, and thankfully not on a low income. Talk about a humbling eye opener - having responsibilities for a little human is a massive task and our society does not make it easy for women (and parents in general a bit this is mumsnet so I’ll admit bias to mums 😻)

If she is earning over the AET they cannot require her to look for or be available for more work. If she's earning more than this she should move out of the intensive work search group and into the "light touch regime". This should also mean that she shouldn't have to go into the job centre weekly. They can still require her to complete work focussed interviews and work preparation requirements with a view to increasing her hours. This only stops if she earns over her conditionality earnings threshold which is likely to be 30hrs x National Minimum Wage.

Her work coach sounds like an utter arsehole. It makes no sense at all for them to be standing in the way of the support you can provide including helping her understand what they require of her. She can put in a complaint to the Job Centre Manager and ask to be reassigned a work coach but how successful that is depends on the job centre unfortunately.

OrangeSlices998 · 17/07/2024 04:41

Are there no private nurseries near where she lives or works? Is a school nursery the only option? I only ask as that would increase the hours she can work per week if that’s the issue. Can she make a telephone appointment and do it on speakerphone with you there?

BusyCM · 17/07/2024 04:47

Also she will be getting 30 hours free childcare so no real reason she can only work 18 hours is there?

MockneyReject · 17/07/2024 05:23

BusyCM · 17/07/2024 04:47

Also she will be getting 30 hours free childcare so no real reason she can only work 18 hours is there?

School nursery is 9-3, and there's no wraparound care available. She is commuting for 2 hours a day. That leaves 4 hours a day, then she has to pay for lunch etc. The 'free' hours come with conditions, and are restrictive.

MockneyReject · 17/07/2024 05:38

Some work coaches are awful; spiteful, even. But some are very human - it.really is the luck of the draw.
If you're available, then she has every right to have you with her for interviews.

BusyCM · 17/07/2024 07:22

MockneyReject · 17/07/2024 05:23

School nursery is 9-3, and there's no wraparound care available. She is commuting for 2 hours a day. That leaves 4 hours a day, then she has to pay for lunch etc. The 'free' hours come with conditions, and are restrictive.

OK but she gets 85% of her remaining fees paid, she can pay for extra care. How much help are we prepared to give people before expecting them to step up and help themselves? Otherwise she'll be working 18 hours for the next 10 years.

MyDogsPaws · 17/07/2024 07:30

In my experience and this is pretty standard for UC advisors, they are absolutely awful unfortunately and seem to be trained to treat anyone claiming UC like an absolute worthless scumbag no matter their situation.

But if her dc is over 3 then I think she will have to work 30 hours the same as everyone else. Although her college courses may count towards this time