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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ukrainian mum - is this reasonable or unreasonable from “work coach”

44 replies

Midlifebaby · 16/07/2024 21:57

Hi mums - I’m looking for some advice please (and a reality check to see if I need to calm down as I think this situation is unreasonable and it may be making me somewhat unreasonable too - I’m definitely lit up 😝)
My DH and I have sponsored and hosted a number of Ukrainian women and children under the visa program, and one of the families we have become very close to have just moved into their own place after being with us for 2 years.

The mum had a professional job, but did not speak English which she has been learning (taking 2 different college courses at the same time to try to expedite things). She has a 3y old and a teenager.

it took her a long time to find a job, but she found one that uses her professional capabilities and required her native languages (Russian and Ukrainian) She is coming towards the end of her 3m probation and things are going well although the company is very much a clock watching environment, woth fixed breaks(not paid) and specific hours. It takes her about an hour of walk/bus/walk to get there, and will take about 1h.15m from her new home. Her initial contract was for 16 hours a week, and they were good enough to increase to 18 to get her child care covered 85% as she didn’t get the job before the time to get the funded hours when her LO turned 3. To work 3 days (2 long 1 short) her LO is in 2 different nurseries.

For the past 2 years, she has been required to go to the job center every week, although sometimes her appointments are changed to a phone call at short notice.
even to travel there and back, wastes so much time (but I know everyone does it!) I queried it once and I was told it’s so she gets the support available, but they don’t actually do anything helpful as she immediately enrolled in English classes and the “coming to England skills classes” and they have to get a translator who isn’t available 50% of the time.

Last week, when I was helping her finalise her move to a rented property, she told me her “job coach” has told her she needs to continue to apply for jobs, find more income, and if she does not, then she will be kicked off UC. I wrote in her journal asking to join todays call/meeting, to understand so I could explain it to her. She has no other income, and we are hoping that UC will assist in her rent payments although she only moved this past weekend so that’s being processed.
Today she went to the job center and the coach refused to let her come in for the appointment, and insisted it had to be on the phone (on the same building) and he had to call and wait for a translator - then he flat refused to call me and told her under no circumstances would he speak to anyone but her (she got so stressed she couldn’t understand anything he was saying ). He further told her she should get a different job (as if getting a job is easy! Work more even though she has a 3y old and has just moved house this past weekend so has to find new childcare before school nursery starts in Sept - but even then, it’s nursery, no wraparound care is available!)
oh mums - I’ve gone off now and I can’t see straight.
is this guy an arse or am I being unreasonable that I think that UC is to help working people work, stay off the poverty line, and provide support while raising small kids (and bigger ones too)

bloody hell, being a mum is hard, especially if you have to do it solo, in a new country which is friendly and hostile at the same time!

What should I tell her? I have no clue and she is barely functioning due to the pressure.
UABU : preschoolers can do full long days in childcare even if the mum is on minimum wage - it’s the system (insert helpful advice on how to find funded full day care for a 3 y old and this is how to cope)
UANBU: she has to work X amount of hours or earnings, and this is what she should tell that jobsworth (insert helpful advice here)

if you’ve even read this far you are my hero xxx

OP posts:
Beezknees · 17/07/2024 07:33

It's how it is unfortunately. I'm a single parent and worked full time from when DS was at primary school. I don't think it's unreasonable.

However I can see why there may be barriers in this particular set of circumstances.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 17/07/2024 07:36

OK so she's not actually been working thev18 hours even though she's now contracted to which unfortunately keeps her in the intensive work search group and yes if they feel she's not doing enough she can be sanctioned. Its not about the number of hours the company is offering but how many she actually works

Drauswe · 17/07/2024 07:40

Those are the rules for everyone. You have to earn about 890 a month to be 'left alone'

If you don't, you're expected to look for more work.

Lostmymarblesalongtimeago · 17/07/2024 07:41

The rules are the rules. Many (British) children have to attend nursery full time as parents have to work full time to make ends meet. Not sure why you think this should be different for Ukrainian toddlers.
If the current nursery has limited opening hours, then she will need to use a private nursery or a child minder.

It's sounds like she is trying really hard. If must be difficult esp if you don't speak the language fluently. But if the child is over 3, she will have to find work to work at least 30h. That is how it is now.

Haveanaiceday · 17/07/2024 07:48

I'm sorry that she is being treated this way. British people went the extra mile for Ukrainians by sponsoring and housing them but it seems like our government has always done the very least they can get away with. The way people on benefits are treated these days is regrettable and sadly it doesn't look like the labour government will do anything to improve matters.

Midlifebaby · 17/07/2024 08:25

Thanks mum(netters)
She did have her DC in private nursery (2 actually as couldn’t get space at 1) her job offer came after one of the deadlines to apply for 30h funded, so she has been taking her invoices every week to the JC to get reimbursed. She has just moved 5m from us, and there is a wonderful primary nursery that has a place for Sept! However they don’t do nursery wraparound, and we haven’t found a childminder yet. The new home also means a massive commute (I’ve never had a commute less than an hour so I get it - but I’m not making minimum wage at a clock watching company either)

It doesn’t matter that she is not British, and this whole situation has given me a even deeper compassion for British mums - and highlights challenges around solo parenting, lack of transport, dealing with unwell children and balancing work, and how hard it is when you don’t understand the system and what is expected at different stages…and then there is childcare during the school holidays which is another challenge!

You have given me some really helpful advice to share with her (I’m going to ask her to read this thread as it has gentle and not so gentle views - all valid!) Thank goodness for the translator apps

x

OP posts:
Drauswe · 17/07/2024 08:25

Haveanaiceday · 17/07/2024 07:48

I'm sorry that she is being treated this way. British people went the extra mile for Ukrainians by sponsoring and housing them but it seems like our government has always done the very least they can get away with. The way people on benefits are treated these days is regrettable and sadly it doesn't look like the labour government will do anything to improve matters.

Treated what way? That's she's expected to do the same thing as everybody else?
Universal credit is about people being self sufficient as much as possible. She needs to find more work like any other person in Britain. She will get help with childcare if needed.

Emmanuelll · 17/07/2024 08:30

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2024 23:48

Yes this is the Job Advisor system which is adhorent and staffed by jobs worth arseholes who are beaucratic Hitlers who get off on the power trip of making lives miserable.

They have no concept of a lack of transport options. Nor restricted language skills. Or anything vaguely human.

Yep

Emmanuelll · 17/07/2024 08:36

Some of the responses on this thread are helpful but others are twattish. A situation mainly created by the 14 year Tory administration. I hope they never get back in. Labour has said that their long term plan is to change the punitive treatment of people but it won't happen overnight.

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 17/07/2024 08:49

If this is the case, can she just apply for jobs and put that in her journal?
It sounds like she has managed to find something suitable for her Language skills, seems unlikely something at 30 hours is going to suddenly materialise.
I doubt they cam sanction her unless there is no evidence of her trying.
Hopefully that would hold until little one is properly in school.
Im sure she would rather be at home with her husband, parents, job and life.

roundspongecake · 17/07/2024 08:57

BusyCM · 17/07/2024 04:47

Also she will be getting 30 hours free childcare so no real reason she can only work 18 hours is there?

It's not as simple as that. They are "funded hours" and so there will be a cost and also the nursery may say only certain hours can be funded eg 9-3 and anything extra is full price.

Personally I think she's best off trying to find a job with more hours and more pay if possible and being done with the job centre. Or will she always have to go there.

roundspongecake · 17/07/2024 09:00

Has she looked into tax free childcare?

Eadfrith · 17/07/2024 09:04

With her being a single mum to a 3 year old with travel and language barriers I think the job centre is being very unreasonable. Also considering it’s about whether there is a setting that can take her 3 year old for 30 hours per week, and finding a job that will be flexible around pre-school hours, seeing as she’s the only one that’s going to be able to do drop offs and pick ups. There’s also a huge amount of pressure on them in general to assimilate to a new country and culture, all the while worrying about their families back home.

Emmanuelll · 17/07/2024 09:31

@roundspongecake I agree with you. I thought this was Mumsnet - do some people really not understand how nursery funded hours work?

30 hours a week free childcare doesn't mean that you can put your child in nursery for up to 30 a week and not pay anything until they are doing 31 hours. If nurseries ran on that basis, they'd have to close! Especially because the last government actually cut the 'funding' that they provide to nurseries by at least 50% of what the hourly rate costs. The government made a choice not to properly subsidise these placements.

The system itself is quite complicated and the number of funded hours that you can claim, daily is capped. And not all nurseries even offer 30 hours a week. My daughter's nursery only offered 15 hours a week and I still don't understand my nursery bills!

BusyCM · 17/07/2024 12:57

Emmanuelll · 17/07/2024 09:31

@roundspongecake I agree with you. I thought this was Mumsnet - do some people really not understand how nursery funded hours work?

30 hours a week free childcare doesn't mean that you can put your child in nursery for up to 30 a week and not pay anything until they are doing 31 hours. If nurseries ran on that basis, they'd have to close! Especially because the last government actually cut the 'funding' that they provide to nurseries by at least 50% of what the hourly rate costs. The government made a choice not to properly subsidise these placements.

The system itself is quite complicated and the number of funded hours that you can claim, daily is capped. And not all nurseries even offer 30 hours a week. My daughter's nursery only offered 15 hours a week and I still don't understand my nursery bills!

I'm a childminder, I know exactly how it works. Some nurseries do indeed have a very complicated pricing system but I doesn't have to be. Mine certainly isn't.

And if the school nursery isn't suitable for her need, or costs too much, then she'll have to shop around. But ultimately that's the rules, it's nothing to do with her being Ukrainian and everything to do with having a welfare system which encourages people back in to work.

Emmanuelll · 17/07/2024 13:04

It’s a bit dim to say that her being Ukrainian has nothing to do with it - clearly it does because English isn’t her first language. Some of the responses on here seem to be generated by an annoyance that we’ve had a change in government which will result in a bit more fairness. Cry me a river(!)

BusyCM · 17/07/2024 13:23

Emmanuelll · 17/07/2024 13:04

It’s a bit dim to say that her being Ukrainian has nothing to do with it - clearly it does because English isn’t her first language. Some of the responses on here seem to be generated by an annoyance that we’ve had a change in government which will result in a bit more fairness. Cry me a river(!)

The rules don't change because someone has English as an additional language. And I have no problem with labour changing the rules. But they haven't been changed yet.

Emmanuelll · 17/07/2024 13:25

But as others have already said, there are work coaches and work coaches. And some are deliberately twattish, unhelpful and inflexible. Which is not right.

Miffylou · 17/07/2024 13:29

See if you can go with her to a Citizens Advice appointment. They will know the rules.

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