To want advice before bf moves in?

[Desertislandparadise]

I've been on mn for a while and have read so many heartbreaking and/or enraging posts about deadbeat partners. I really don't want to be writing my own some years down the line. Does anyone have any advice for specific red flags or boundaries to pay attention to?

My bf (32) and I (34) have been together 2 years. We have discussed living together soon. I own my own home while he rents so it would be a question of him moving in with me (he suggested finding a new place together, but I don't want to leave my flat). He's a lovely person, very kind, but also e.g. much less confident about cooking than I am (lives off ready meals and take out) and more tolerant to mess.

I absolutely don't want to end up in a dynamic where he is "helping" me to cook and clean in the home we share. Especially not if we end up having kids.

I guess I'm asking if there are things I can do from day one that would help head that off. Since it is originally my home, how can I encourage him to see it as also his responsibility as soon as he's moved in? Financially I'll be responsible for all repairs etc but I mean the general housekeeping work needed everyday?

Check the laws where you live. When my boyfriend moved in I didn’t accept rent because I didn’t want him to accrue rights over the property - he paid the bills instead. I had a spare room that he wanted as an office and I didn’t allow that - him having a designated room would have given him rights. Definitely check the laws in case you ever need to get rid!

Dont lose sight of the fact that it’s a really lovely, exciting step to take in the relationship! And don’t let domestic drudgery be all you do - make sure you still do fun things together out of the house.

We definitely had some tense moments because we had both lived alone for about 10 years each. Takes adjusting! Worked for us - we got married and then bought a place together (and I made sure my investment was protected by getting extra paperwork). Good luck, enjoy!

This.

Start as you mean to go on. It's a partnership.

So when my BF moved into my house we discussed the financial side of things and the house work side of things in-depthly. Financially I wanted him to have absolutely no claim to my house if we spit, so I pay the mortgage in whole. He does however put half the monthly mortgage payment into a savings account. The idea being when we are both in a position we feel comfortable being financially tied then he uses that saving pot to buy a percentage of the house. Untill then, it's also a good emergency fund, like when the fridge blew up...
We half all other bills.
This probably doesn't sound right to many people, but works for us as I feel compensated enough for sharing my space with him paying half the other bills, and if/when he pays into the mortgage, it will drastically drop the monthly payments. I feel it also means he doesn't feel tied to me financially if he wants to split. He has the funds to do so.

As for house work, he admits he doesn't like to cook complicated meals, so he takes evenings when I'm out the house and just want something quick when I get back. He usually makes pasta or something else I can easily reheat later. This suits me very well as otherwise I would probably get a takeaway. He does also enjoy helping me cook more involved meals on other nights.
We luckily have a similar tolerance to clutter/cleaning so that's not been an issue for us.

Honestly it is one of a number of things but I felt after so many years that I was nothing more than the skivvy, the housemaid, and my spare time was spent doing chores or I had to think about all the things that needed doing, while his spare time was his to relax and do what he wanted and he never gave a thought to anything domestic related as if it was ‘beneath’ him. I don’t know if he thought it was, but this is what I felt.

The not picking up after himself or appreciating all my efforts or totally disrespecting them, such as dumping his stuff in the hallway or on the floor instead of putting it away, after a while got really old.

Not the only thing of course but just one of many where I felt unappreciated and used, unequal and like my time didn’t matter.

He can hardly clean or cook for himself though. My fault for sticking around so long! Just don’t fall into the trap of doing everything yourself because it’s easier, because it will quickly become the norm then you’ll end up resenting him

@EveningSpread Thanks for this. I will definitely be discussing all this with my bf before we actually move in but wanted to my thoughts clear first. MN is helping with that!

My bf is kind and respectful but also can be a bit oblivious. If I ask him to do something he will immediately do it, but he might not notice it needs to be done in the first place.

He grew up abroad in a house with a housekeeper. So it's not that he thinks stuff is "women's work" or nonsense like that, but that he really doesn't know how much work it takes to manage a home. He has a tiny flat and lives off take away, as I've said.

I guess I want to figure out what is fair in my own head before discussing things in depth with him. For example with cooking, is it fair for me to demand he starts cooking when he would happily continue eating ready meals? He'd be changing for me, should I compromise?

I know you don’t want to give up your flat but I’m especially struck by your comment that your norm is to each be the guest in the others home. This, and the need to be clear from the start about how to live together as equal partners, makes me think you would have a better chance of achieving that equality if you get a place together that’s new to you both.

Can you rent out your flat and rent somewhere together with your boyfriend for a couple of years. It would give your co-habitant relationship the chance of a new start.

(I moved into a boyfriend’s owned flat many moons ago and it was so hard to fit in around his established ways - we were both miserable and split up within a year)

@Overtired345I take your point and you're probably right ... Buuut, I really love my flat! I guess I should at least consider it though.

Thanks for all the advice, everybody, and for sharing your own stories with me. It's definitely giving me food for thought!

I see your point about the cooking - perhaps that’s a seperate conversation. If he’s happy with ready meals then it’s tricky. Does he eat healthily? Is he ok with money or wasting a lot on ready made foods? And will he be happy to benefit when you’re cooking? All these things would give me pause - you don’t want to fall into the role of mother/carer. Does he have any desire to improve/change? To cook for you if it would make you happy?

On the other hand, it’s a good rule of thumb to assume you’ll never change anyone - and certainly not expect it!

So on that note, it also depends how import food is to you. Food is a pretty big part of my life and my values (ethically and environmentally) so I’d struggle being with someone who had a totally different attitude to it. I also love sharing food, enjoying similar things, etc. But everyone is different and it’s not necessarily a big deal for everyone!

For example with cooking, is it fair for me to demand he starts cooking when he would happily continue eating ready meals? He'd be changing for me, should I compromise?

Firstly, is he like 600lbs? How does a grown man only eat ready meals and takeaways?

Secondly, when you decide to live together, you both compromise. I don't think it's too much to ask that he be an adult and cook.

Thirdly, kids don't eat ready meals. So if you want a man to have a family with, that man needs to do the basics.

Fourthly, what exactly is he compromising on? Because so far, I can't see any compromises on his part.

He grew up abroad in a house with a housekeeper. So it's not that he thinks stuff is "women's work" or nonsense like that, but that he really doesn't know how much work it takes to manage a home. He has a tiny flat and lives off take away, as I've said.

All the more reason to have some difficult conversations and also instill some boundaries early.

I do agree you can't change anyone. I eventually could not change my exH and I left him. I spent years thinking I was unreasonable and demanding, doing everything at home, while starting a demanding career, thinking "this is how men are".

Then I started dating and it turned out loads of men can cook, clean and be a good partner. I've had none of these problems in my current relationship and I thank my lucky stars I chose to leave exH before having babies with him.

Well, he's happy with processed food which I personally would consider unhealthy. He's generally good with money, has a budget etc but food is where he splurges. So many restaurant meals!

He's happy to eat food I've prepared, also happy to help me cook it. I think if I asked him to cook several times a week he would do it, but I'd worry it might end up with him feeling resentful further down the line. Take aways are a lot faster!

I guess like you say I'll have to figure out how important the food situation is to me.

He's a healthy weight, lol. Guys seem to get away with eating way more crap than women do!

I guess he'd be compromising by cleaning to a higher standard and not eating his favourite ready meal every day? Not loads I admit! But then I'd just be compromising on having a slightly messier home and not eating my favourite home cooked food everyday...

Your point about kids is an excellent one. I hadn't thought of it that way. Definitely makes me more confident in asking him to learn how to cook. Thanks!

Get a cleaner.

I think you're focusing too much on cooking. Sounds like he isn't a natural cook as such and that's fine, as long as he does the washing up afterwards and pulls his weight equally with other household tasks.

Living with someone can be hard- really hard! I think it's made harder when one person moves into another person's home. I would really think carefully about this and consider getting a new place together.

OP, be careful.

I agreed 50:50 on bills when ex moved in with me. He quadrupled my electricity bill, tripled my water bill, Christ knows what he was doing with it all.
He ate easily 70% of the food, and insisted on 'upgraded' groceries - salmon, leg of lamb, asparagus, etc.. He preferred the village butcher and farm shop.
After 3 months I had to ask him to leave because I couldn't afford to live his way and he wasn't willing to pay his fair share.

We sat down and discussed chores before we moved in together - 20 years on, we still broadly stick to what we agreed back then, obviously children have added to the list!

I really recommend just sitting down with a list of what needs to be done, agreeing who does what and at what frequency and then just getting on with it.

We play to our strengths but although I do more than half of the cooking - I agree with a PP that it's important that he can cook and more than a ready meal. There are lots of really straightforward meals he can start with - the roasting tin cookbooks are good for this, they are largely about cutting stuff up and putting it in the oven

Without wanting to be too judgemental, I do agree with a poster upthread that a grown ass man unable to cook and clean is a real turn off, and a real potential problem as a cohabitee. It’s not for us to tell the OP who to date, but I’d be approaching this with extreme caution. She shouldn’t be making compromises on things like being an adult who doesn’t eat crap every night - there’s compromise then there’s pandering to childish behaviour. At the same time it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect people to change, so I’d worry the OP will end up unhappy/a skivvy. There are just too many women who don’t feel their partner pulls their weight and the relationship becomes full of resentment and a trial - and it seems here the OP has a pretty good idea this man can’t domestically look after himself already! He doesn’t sound like a catch, if I’m honest. I really hope he’s lovely it works out for you OP but do take care! 💐

The mental load is really important, especially if he is moving into your existing set up. He might put the bins out, but do you have to remind him that it's Monday night? He might be willing to clean the toilet but do you have to ask him and check that it has been done?

The main thing in terms of housework is that he has to learn to notice when something needs done. That's his first job every day when he comes home from work - to notice if there are unwashed dishes, to check whether there's any laundry (that need to go in the machine, taken out the machine, dried, or ironed, put away - the whole lot). To look in the fridge and see if there's milk, butter, eggs, cheese, bread - and if not, to add it to a communal (and visible) shopping list. Who actually carries out the chores can be agreed between you but you need him to take his share of the mental responsibility. Now. Or he may never do it.

Also the admin load. He needs to be aware of when bills are paid and how much they are - if they're all on your account and in your name it is a very easy thing for him to simply transfer £Xamount at the start of the month then never have to think about it again - suddenly it is all your responsibility to check there's enough in the budget, or to deal with price increases, or to manage everything to do with utility supply problems, new broadband, etc... And all HIS personal admin is his: his Mum's birthday, arranging family gatherings.

How open are you going to be about your personal finances? Who has savings? Who spends on coffees, gym membership, meals out? How is that financed? Will you be transparent about debts / credit ratings? Do you both have the same amount of pending money?

Cooking? I'm like you, lovel to cook, happy to do it. But dh CAN cook. He has his own version of a 'Jamie 5 ingredient' list, simple dishes that he loves to eat and that he can do quickly (pasta, lemon, basil, pinenuts, parmsan, crispy bacon). He is responsible twice a week

None of that sounds romantic, but having the mental load shared, not building up resentment, being confident that you have a shared approach to money - all of that leaves you able to devote your creative time to being together, being in love.

I would suggest

sit down and talk about how you have different standards and then agree to come to a meeting of the minds on what the basic standards for your joint house situation are.

write down what you both agree that cleaning the bathroom means..floors mopped, tiles scrubbed, bath mat washed etc etc

then do the same for every job

then divide up the jobs and discuss how frequently they should be done, some are daily, some are weekly, some are monthly.

then allocate jobs

then set up your next household planning meeting in a month to review and adjust

I have a similar set up, & it has been established for ten years. My partner can cook, but he is incredibly slow & chooses over-elaborate recipes. We have settled on a system where I mainly cook, he helps & he does most of the washing up. Some days we just do our own thing food wise. My DP actually likes crap like ready meal curries, so this means he gets to still have these, while I can have a big salad, which would not be filling enough for him.
You might want to consider this, as a lot of people are not natural cooks, while I can rustle up an elaborate meal in no time. This approach is less stressful for me, as if I insisted that he cook three times a week, I would get stressed out watching his ineptitude & having dinner at 10pm.
The rest of the chores should absolutely be split 50-50. Just ensure your standards of tidiness are not too different, particularly in common areas, just expect his own spaces ( office, wardrobe) will probably be messy. My DP has an incredibly messy office, I occasionally make remarks, but mostly leave him to it, and close the door. We get on fine with this system.

I’ll tell you now that dynamic WILL continue .

He won’t clean because he “ doesn’t mind the mess “ or he “ doesn’t see it” or “ he doesn’t know where you keep things / how you like it done “ and he was waiting for you to ask him. Or because you asked him at the wrong time or in the wrong tone of voice.

And it will be the same with the cooking , shopping and laundry.

And of course you will do all the admin, DIY, Gardening, decorating and maintenance because it’s your house.

And you will do all the life admin because he’s not from the UK / he’s busy / you are so good at it / he works shifts / he works 9-5/ he’s not near the shops.

The person with the highest standards always ends up doing everything. And so many jobs are so easy and quick for a woman and so hard / stressful / time consuming for a man, it’s not worth all the aggro and hassle 🙄

You will spend your life asking him to “ help” you and you will grow more and more resentful. The only Way to stop this happening is to

1. sit down and agree it all now. yeah I know it’s not romantic and sexy and cool and fun but you need to start adulting now
2. keep a very close eye on things and act as soon as they slip. Don’t give him the benefit of the doubt for one minute.

You are a fool if you don’t get a cohabitation agreement drawn up by a solicitor - would you take a job with no contract or buy a car with no paperwork ? Don’t risk your home for some man - I assume you worked hard for it.

I definitely don't want to end up in the scenario you've described. My parents had what I consider a very equal relationships but I've got a sister who has ended up doing way more than her fair share. She's constantly stressed.

I'm definitely going to talk things over and reach a clear agreement with my bf before he moves in. One reason I posted is to get some idea of what I should be insisting on and where I should relax a little. Yours and other's posts have really helped with this.

Regarding the finance and legalities, that's more clear cut and I will absolutely be getting legal advice. My bf and I are on the same page there.

I think the main thing is accepting people for who and as there are trying to change or “train “ people never works

he isn’t the tidy so has different standards to you and would happily live off ready meals
this is him he isn’t expecting you to cook and tidy for him he’s quite happy with Living like that