To take DC out of private prep and back to state?

[Twentythirdtry]

DC is progressing just as well overall in the prep as he did at his state school. Differences the prep has made are: he’s behind in maths instead of reading. ?!

still behind in writing and spelling/grammar/punctuation and I come to find out they only do one piece of handwritten work per subject per week..? The rest is on a laptop…

I was hoping there’d be a chance of him passing 11+ by going to this school. A prep school after all.

he is on ASD pathway and has apparently received significantly more support at the prep than the state. They said he is ‘masking’ less than he did at the state, which is leading to his decline in progress. He doesn’t actually seem any happier though, more burned out yes but happier? No. His interests seem to have bottlenecked as well and just wants to go on the computer all the time.

I am not eager to put him back into his state school (if there’s places that is) but I am really questioning if this move was worth it. Not just for this reason but many others… this, I just cannot get my head around though!

I guess there are a few questions.

1. How would he cope with another move? The disruption might be difficult for him, especially as he has ASD? Might be a reason to keep him where he is?

1. You said he seems burnt out. Do you think that's related to his current school? You said he seems no happier, which suggests that he isn't unhappier but it isn't totally clear. If you think the school is having a negative impact on his wellbeing, then definitely move him.

1. What is the added value that you're actually paying for at the current school? Is it worth what you are having to invest? (You might have to suck it up regardless if it would be too disruptive to move him.)

1. Even if he was able to get in, would a grammar school really be the right environment for him if he is struggling with multiple areas of the curriculum, or would a different type of school be better able to meet his needs?

very hard to advise but main thing that jumped out in your post is that you feel he gets more support in this school.

state schools have their funding cut to the bone and few kids with SEN get their needs met even if they have EHCPlans .

I presume there are smaller class sizes and more ta’s at prep than state? - Which I’m sure would be beneficial.

it’s so hard when going through diagnosis (I have 2 kids with ASD) as until all the reports / assessments are in you don’t have a clear picture of their needs.

changing schools repeatedly will be very unsettling and if you feel you have a good working relationship with the school and feel they are willing and able to support him - I think I would be tempted to stick with the prep until all the assessments are done.

if a move needs to be made you want it to be 1 move to the right place and that is so hard to judge whilst you are in the midst of all the information gathering.

good luck with it all.

What year is he in and how long has he been there?

There is more pressure in private school and far more assessments so he may not like this if he has ASD.

When you say 11+, do you mean for grammar school or private secondary school?

This isn’t about private versus state, it’s about support vs potentially less. Support isn’t always the right support either - less of something completely tailored to what your son needs is going to be better than cookie cutter for all. Grammar may well be better than not - may have other kids with high functioning ASD and be used to helping them access curriculum - but depends on your son.

you need advice about what to do that is tailored not from mumsnet.

Has an educational psychologist ever seen him?

@Twentythirdtry if, by "passing the 11+" you mean going to grammar school does this prep school prepare them for grammar school 11+ entry? Not all schools do - grammar school exams are 3-4 months before private school 11+ exams. you need to be clear on what you are aiming for.

Does he have good friends at either school?

If he's behind in some subjects then he's probably not right for grammar school and wouldn't be happy there. So I wouldn't be too upset if he seems unlikely to get in.

IMO a good state school can be pretty similar to a mediocre private school (although a bad state school is usually a lot worse than a bad private school). The teaching isn't necessarily any better in private. You're mainly paying for the smaller classes, the facilities (which may or may not be relevant for your DC), and/or to get them away from a really bad state school if that's what you were allocated.

I guess it partly depends how much of a stretch this is for you financially, and how many sacrifices you're having to make.

At the end of the day, a private school isn't a magic school. If your DC is behind in some subjects and struggling in some ways, this will probably be true at any school. Maybe your expectations were too high?

Not all prep/info schools are the same.

Our first indi was a haven for kids with learning issues. Absolutely lovely school set in the middle of fields, fantastic socials, nurturing but not academically driven or viable for us to stay.

There is absolutely no guarantee he will pass his 11+ either. My girls go prep and I was shocked when I realised parents were also using home tutors to get their kids to pass. The competition is tough.

Look at the support he is getting and the benefits of the school and see if it’s worth the financial cost to your family.

I agree with above that it’s less the difference of private/state and more how best to structure and tailor the support he needs.

If the approach at private isn’t working then would the money be better spent in a good state school with you instead financing additional support and tutors or extra curricular activities alongside?

Also could he cope with another move or would any marginal benefit be overshadowed by the disruption of moving and having to form new relationships etc. I’d book a meeting with his current school to discuss what is currently in place, what isn’t working and how they could alter support to better suit his needs. You likely could do with the opinion of an educational psychologist before switching in any case so you know what you’re looking for if you did need a new school.

My thoughts exactly. If he’s behind now with support then how on earth would he cope in a grammar.

my confusion lies here, though:

I don’t understand how in a school that significantly more nurturing and supportive than his last, his progress is worse?

the areas he has progressed are areas we do at home as part of the 4 hours of homework he completes each week… and they only do one handwritten piece of work per week in English at school, so how can I expect it to improve?

SENCO has told us it’s not his ability that’s ann issue at all, and theres other kids there much less able than he is.

obviously to pass the 11+ we would get a tutor and do home learning etc, i just wasn’t expecting to play catch up at the end of the school year (which is what I was doing when he was at state) but it seems he has as much chance of 11+ entry as he did at state..

I just can not see what measurable difference this prep school is actually making? It’s a lovely school, i would have loved to go there when i was a kid. DS says he loves it too but he’s there to be educated first and foremost. Socially/emotionally speaking, he has become more defiant and argumentative than before and that seemed to be an overnight change when he moved there. I think it was a mix of a big transition and burnout.

You need to check that they prepare for state grammar and not private school 11+. If it’s a boys school then they might be designed for students to transition at 13 rather than 11.

When my kids were at state primary they did one creative writing piece per week but they spent the rest of the week planning, coming up with drafts or working on interesting vocabulary every day before writing the final product on a Friday. (Big Write) They wrote in other subjects like topic work and had lessons in punctuation and grammar (unclear what aspect of writing you are concerned about )

Id imagine that prep school means more extra curriculars like drama, sport and music. Does your son have any interest in those kind of things ?

Maybe he is behaving differently at the new school, because he feels safer now?

Is it possible that he felt under intense pressure to mask at the old school - and performing academically can be a way of masking...like 'if I do my schoolwork, my teacher will like me'.

I might be wrong, but as an autistic person who was desperate for approval at school, performing academically was one way to get that approval.

If you can afford it and he's happy I'd say stick with private. Education is a marathon, not a sprint and good mental health is one of the factors that gets you to the finish line. No point pushing for a few extra grades at GCSE, if he ends up dropping out of a levels or degree due to mental health.

I wonder if maybe you had unrealistic expectations of the prep school, OP? Understandable, perhaps, given the eye watering fees that people tend to pay, but there generally isn't that as much difference in the overall quality of education as people seem to think.

You've said that the private school is more nurturing and supportive than the state school was. Isn't that what you're paying for? Or is it that you're now finding that the extra nurturing and supoort just isn't making that much of a difference to your child?

We looked at private schools for our dd and concluded that they weren't worth the investment for us - they undoubtedly had smaller classes and shinier facilities but the schools weren't really adding value in the areas that we felt were important. For a different family with different children and different priorities, they might reach a different conclusion.

I think you need to assess what exactly it is that you think you're paying for within the private system - ie what are your expectations and are they being met? And perhaps there is also a question as to whether the things that you are currently paying for are actually the things that your son needs?

You may well conclude that the private school isn't really offering much added value. However, moving him at this stage might be disruptive, so depending on how stretched you are financially, you might decide to keep him where he is anyway. Then again, if you feel like he was actually doing better in the state sector, I can understand why you wouldn't want to keep paying for the privilege of having him in a less conducive environment.

YABU to put your child through this much stress when it’s clear he would struggle at a grammar school academically which would knock his confidence.

Your child is burnt out and your still pushing him 🙄

Superficially I’m in a similar position to you OP but for an older child . What I did that was eye opening was to compare his books between the two schools . Private much more detailed and actually marked . Also my child is less well behaved at private - they are stricter and he is noticed in the smaller classes . My DS is happier in the private school so he will stay . I would like to see him in Grammar for his A levels - I am now less sure that he will make it and he will probably go back to his old school , I won’t be able to afford a levels in private .DS has no diagnosed SEND

I have had children in all sorts of schools.
The main benefits of a good prep school are smaller classes which can benefit those who need a little more attention and a wider curriculum stretching the child in different directions that they wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to explore.
I am not convinced that a decent state primary would be less successful at educating most children in the core curriculum.

No, I’m not pushing him. I had hoped with more support at the prep, that he’d have a chance to pass the 11+. This post is about moving him back to state school, what on earth makes you think I want to push him more?!

And you’d be exactly right. Seems I’ve learned the hard way!

I clearly did have unrealistic expectations yes. When we spoke to the head, they had reviewed his progress tests and CAT5 and spoke about his potential, bringing his scores up, even about potential scholarships for secondary school. But clearly it was a load of waffle.

yes that is partly what we were paying for, but with the burn out and the attitude problems I’m not sure it’s the right kind of nurturing or support.

some of expectations have been met (support and pastoral care) some have been exceeded and some not met (academics and attitude). I absolutely don’t think it’s worth the money though that’s for sure. A lovely school, but just not worth the fees.

if he were to go back to the state system he’d go back to his previous school in order to minimise the disruption, it’d also make transition to secondary easier if he’s going to non selective state.

I’d talk to the old school (state) first. If he’s masking less - are they going to be able to handle it? I would expect so, but check before jumping.

This could be the case. He spoke about his teachers being very strict and shouting at him at the state, which was one of the main reasons we moved him. I had equated happiness and wellbeing with achieving and so had hoped that in a happier school, he’d do better academically. I hadn’t really thought of it this way around though. Thank you for your perspective.

How long has he been in the new school OP - apologises if I’ve missed it .

His additional needs are and always were minuscule compared to some other children with SEN at the state school (in fact this was partly why we took him out - we thought his needs had perhaps been overshadowed by this and therefore somewhat ignored).

Thank you for answering this - this is frankly the biggest head scratcher in terms of my worries about his academic progress… in his English books, there is only one piece of written work per week, including any work sheets he’s done which are glued in. It’s the same for the other subjects too. In fact, a chunk of this written work in his books are the writing assessments? DS says the rest of the learning is done on their laptops and that goes for the entire class, not just him.

Oops forgot to answer your questions at the bottom - he loves STEM and they have excellent STEM curriculum and extra curriculars. Obviously this is great for him but like I said his other interests such as creative writing has seriously dwindled and not sure how this would stand him in good stead in the future, unless he was going on to a senior school with similar offerings and opportunities

Oops forgot to answer your questions at the bottom - he loves STEM and they have excellent STEM curriculum and extra curriculars. Obviously this is great for him but like I said his other interests such as creative writing have seriously dwindled and not sure how this would stand him in good stead in the future, unless he was going on to a senior school with similar offerings and opportunities