Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why doesn't England have a National Anthem?

364 replies

itwontletmechoose · 14/07/2024 19:59

It's frustrating to hear them sing the 'God Save the King' British national anthem. Why doesn't England have its own national anthem instead of singing one which covers all of the union (in theory)?

OP posts:
gotmyknickersinatwist · 19/07/2024 00:10

mrandmrsrobinson · 16/07/2024 16:29

And here's me thinking it's the theme to the Archers. Dum de dum

Eh, I think you'll find it's 'do-do-do-do-do-do-doo, do-do-do-do-doo-do, do-do-do-do-do-do-doo, do-de-doodily-doo.'

@ErrolTheDragon

A'thank you.

gotmyknickersinatwist · 19/07/2024 00:22

Forgot the fade-out:

'Dumpa-dumpa-dumpa-dum...'

gotmyknickersinatwist · 19/07/2024 00:30

ErrolTheDragon · 18/07/2024 11:37

Btw not that I want to upset the Lancashirians but the best black pudding in the world is from Clonakilty.

I'm a Lancashire/yorkshire mongrel (with a dash of Welsh) but the only edible black pudding I've encountered yet is Stornoway. I'll try to remember to try your recommendation sometime.Grin

Oh do yourself a favour Errol! It's available in N.I. but if you go to the source you'll get to see gorgeous Co. Cork.

Regalia · 19/07/2024 00:38

gotmyknickersinatwist · 19/07/2024 00:30

Oh do yourself a favour Errol! It's available in N.I. but if you go to the source you'll get to see gorgeous Co. Cork.

And there’s, mysteriously, a visitor centre at the factory.

gotmyknickersinatwist · 19/07/2024 00:53

Regalia · 19/07/2024 00:38

And there’s, mysteriously, a visitor centre at the factory.

What would black pudding merch look like? 🤔
I'd expect LOTS of samples along the way, and a big ol' schlong of b.p. to be on my merry way with.

TomPinch · 19/07/2024 02:12

gotmyknickersinatwist · 19/07/2024 00:30

Oh do yourself a favour Errol! It's available in N.I. but if you go to the source you'll get to see gorgeous Co. Cork.

Is that drisheen, a black pudding made from sheep's blood? I've heard of it.

I would love a black pudding exhibition, where you could try all sorts of varieties from different places, and preferably some pork crackling on the side. Unfortunately where I live the black pudding is stuffed full of soy.

TwirlBar · 19/07/2024 10:42

No, black pudding isn't the same as drisheen @TomPinch. Both are blood puddings though.

You can get white pudding too, which is black pudding without the blood. I prefer that one. The taste of black pudding is actually great but the idea of the blood puts me off - even though I eat meat so there's no real logic to it.

There are lots of brands of black and white pudding. Clonakilty, as pp mentioned, is a famous one. They're very widely available, all supermarkets will have some version. Some brands, eg Galtee, seem to be more heavily processed, and some are considered more artisan products, on menus in good restaurants etc.

Drisheen is rarer. I know it's available in certain butcher shops, but you'd have to seek it out. Cork's English market has it. I've never tasted it.

Devonbabs · 19/07/2024 10:53

TomPinch · 18/07/2024 23:13

I don't agree with this at all. Back in the 90s I studied the Industrial Revolution for GCSE and then sixteenth century European history for A-level. Historians were not concentrating on rich white men and hadn't been for ages. We certainly didn't. Show me someone who says history still has that bias and I will show you an ideologue who is after some kind of unobtainable purity, like a Reformation cleric who wants to smash things up and cause mayhem.

What has changed is that history has become much more thematic. That's made it very political, value-laden and more akin to some version of sociology that we are supposed to take the correct lesson from. It's just a little bit Orwellian and it's taken the subject away from what is should be based in, ie, a sympathetic but value-neutral study of past times.

“Who controls the past……” eh.

it’s interesting… my shelves are laden with books about women in history, a particular area I’m interested in has seen a massive increase in the study of women.

Even my Alevel dissertation was looking at the lives of the average mill worker in the early 1800s in a particular town.

There does seem a narrative being placed from certain quarters that unless we look at history through the lens of our, oh so superior morals in some kind of 21st century woke saviour mode, we will just be looking at rich white men. It’s creating an anarchy within our view of history.

I find it astonishingly arrogant when people try and look at history with todays morals and somehow think they’re superior. Pseudo liberalism at its best/worst.

TomPinch · 19/07/2024 11:04

@Devonbabs When I was in my early teens I read a book I found on my parents' shelves: Human Documents of the Industrial Revolution by E Royston Pike, published 1966. It was a collection of first-hand reports from district medical officers, factory inspectors, clergy, workers, police etc, from the late eighteenth to mid nineteenth century. Very unvarnished, and certainly not interpreted. It fascinated me. Have you heard of it?

Devonbabs · 19/07/2024 11:11

DogInATent · 18/07/2024 23:46

What's awful is when British culture is divorced from the reality of the past. You can't teach or study British history the multiple cultures of the Empire, and one of the most significant imports of the empire was the cultures of the countries that made up the empire.

Take the Colston statue. How can you describe someone as a philanthropist without looking at the darker aspects of how he had the money in the first place? It's difficult to say anything about Britain's pre-abolitionist role in the slave trade other than it was awful. But you can then build on that through to the more enlightened politics of abolition.

It's not about Britain Is Awful. If you interpret it that way it says more about your insecurities about British history. Countries are like the people that make them up, they occasionally make mistakes, but overall you'd hope they try their best.

But how are you concluding the way someone got their money as “dark” you are putting todays values on history. you have to look at the standards and norms of the contemporary times.

Do you look at a potato and think, I can’t really eat this without thinking about all the native Americans who died during the colonisation of What became known as Virginia?

Do you actively avoid any part of watling Street because the Romans had slavery and crucified people? Or maybe you avoid keeping rabbits?

Would you like stone henge pulled down? I wonder who they got to pull the stones there?

What about Manchester, largely built on the back of the cotton trade? Should we pull that down? I mean, slavery and child labour involved there!

Or maybe concentrate your efforts and disgust at the slavery that’s going on now. How much modern exploitation feeds daily into your live now. Exploitation and harm to the planet which is funded by you, today you will most likely use something that has probably exploited a child, supported human trafficking, somehow fed into the drug industry along the line, is adding to the destruction of the planet, has harmed local environments, has not had a fair price paid for it and left a family struggling . Now that is pretty dark, you should know better. Let’s hope future generations don’t judge you in the same way you’re judging the past.

Devonbabs · 19/07/2024 11:13

TomPinch · 19/07/2024 11:04

@Devonbabs When I was in my early teens I read a book I found on my parents' shelves: Human Documents of the Industrial Revolution by E Royston Pike, published 1966. It was a collection of first-hand reports from district medical officers, factory inspectors, clergy, workers, police etc, from the late eighteenth to mid nineteenth century. Very unvarnished, and certainly not interpreted. It fascinated me. Have you heard of it?

No I haven’t but I will definitely see if I can find a ccpy. It’s amazing when you get a glimpse into those past lives. Reports from the Assizes, newspaper reports. Looking at the changes in households etc, you can get a glimpse into so many ordinary peoples stories.

DogInATent · 19/07/2024 12:36

Devonbabs · 19/07/2024 11:11

But how are you concluding the way someone got their money as “dark” you are putting todays values on history. you have to look at the standards and norms of the contemporary times.

Do you look at a potato and think, I can’t really eat this without thinking about all the native Americans who died during the colonisation of What became known as Virginia?

Do you actively avoid any part of watling Street because the Romans had slavery and crucified people? Or maybe you avoid keeping rabbits?

Would you like stone henge pulled down? I wonder who they got to pull the stones there?

What about Manchester, largely built on the back of the cotton trade? Should we pull that down? I mean, slavery and child labour involved there!

Or maybe concentrate your efforts and disgust at the slavery that’s going on now. How much modern exploitation feeds daily into your live now. Exploitation and harm to the planet which is funded by you, today you will most likely use something that has probably exploited a child, supported human trafficking, somehow fed into the drug industry along the line, is adding to the destruction of the planet, has harmed local environments, has not had a fair price paid for it and left a family struggling . Now that is pretty dark, you should know better. Let’s hope future generations don’t judge you in the same way you’re judging the past.

I'm not suggesting pulling anything down.

If you read anything other than tabloid headlines you'd know that the debate about the Colston statue had been going on for years and the disagreement was over adding an addendum to the plaque that described where his wealth came from.

Pretending that bad things never happened is utterly false. Pretending that Britain has never done bad things is ridiculous. Pretending that we should never talk about thee things is jingoistic bullshit. And you can see the end of that road at the RNC this week - prominent speakers talking rubbish about D-Day and claiming it was a blow against communism! How daft can you get? D-Day was the first step towards shaking hands with Communist Allies!

SerendipityJane · 19/07/2024 13:13

TomPinch · 19/07/2024 11:04

@Devonbabs When I was in my early teens I read a book I found on my parents' shelves: Human Documents of the Industrial Revolution by E Royston Pike, published 1966. It was a collection of first-hand reports from district medical officers, factory inspectors, clergy, workers, police etc, from the late eighteenth to mid nineteenth century. Very unvarnished, and certainly not interpreted. It fascinated me. Have you heard of it?

https://massobs.org.uk/

Mass Observation - Mass Observation Archive

Learn More The Archive and its History The Archive is made up of documents generated by the original Mass Observation social research organisation (1937 to early 1950s), and newer material collected continuously since 1981 (Mass Observation Project). I...

https://massobs.org.uk

Devonbabs · 19/07/2024 19:58

DogInATent · 19/07/2024 12:36

I'm not suggesting pulling anything down.

If you read anything other than tabloid headlines you'd know that the debate about the Colston statue had been going on for years and the disagreement was over adding an addendum to the plaque that described where his wealth came from.

Pretending that bad things never happened is utterly false. Pretending that Britain has never done bad things is ridiculous. Pretending that we should never talk about thee things is jingoistic bullshit. And you can see the end of that road at the RNC this week - prominent speakers talking rubbish about D-Day and claiming it was a blow against communism! How daft can you get? D-Day was the first step towards shaking hands with Communist Allies!

Oh dear oh dear and here you are losing it and resorting to ad hominem arguments. My experience is to stop engaging when people resort to that level it’s pointless actually trying to have any kind of erudite debate. Sounds like I hit a nerve

New posts on this thread. Refresh page