Why doesn't England have a National Anthem?

[itwontletmechoose]

It's frustrating to hear them sing the 'God Save the King' British national anthem. Why doesn't England have its own national anthem instead of singing one which covers all of the union (in theory)?

I had this strange debate about English culture. The person didn't believe we had one. Every country has a culture, I couldn't work out why only England didn't.

I had this strange debate about English culture. The person didn't believe we had one. Every country has a culture, I couldn't work out why only England didn't.

Was the person English?

Yes. It was really weird. I think they were trying to be inclusive. It was a strange conversation.

My husband doesn’t even describe himself as English.

He describes himself as a Yorkshireman. Having lived in various places in England he wouldn’t recognise one culture in all places in England.

What do you mean wouldn't recognise one culture?

Yes. It was really weird. I think they were trying to be inclusive. It was a strange conversation.

Sounds like a sort of blindness to what they thought were 'defaults' perhaps?

Of course England, and I'm sure most countries, also have subcultures.

Well they were saying that we don't have our own identity and are made up of a mixture of different cultures. They said the royal family is German and a load of other stuff as though there's nothing uniquely English.

Well they were saying that we don't have our own identity and are made up of a mixture of different cultures. They said the royal family is German and a load of other stuff as though there's nothing uniquely English.

That probably applies to most western countries.

He wouldn’t expect to share an identity with someone from London or Norfolk or Newcastle or Cornwall. They all have pretty distinct identities.

They all make up the culture of England. England isn't homogeneous like any other country, but they share a national identity. Being a proud Yorkshireman from God's own county is as cliched as fish and chips.

Absolutely, I remember Ryan Giggs, Craig Bellamy and Joe Allen getting a mild lambasting for not singing GSTQ at the 2012 Olympics… why should they?! They would be singing the anthem that England use when playing against Wales! I love Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, really stirring, in fact I have Pleidiol tattooed on my wrist!

And here's me thinking it's the theme to the Archers. Dum de dum

We just need some words for it

I agree. I would love to ditch the awful, royalist dirge that is God Save the King, and have a proper English anthem.
Jerusalem, maybe? Or something along the lines of the Danish anthem (or rather, the one that is used for sporting events, as they have two - lucky buggers!) The Danish one is fantastic!

I think we should go for something like "Thumbs up, tickety boo" just to be different.

I've campaigned for it to be careless whisper but no luck thus far

Ooooo Outside by George would be good. A total throwing off of English inhibitions and pomp!

Rereading this comment, wtf?! If who gets independence? Scotland or NI? Who exactly do you think owns NI & has the authority to 'give it to' anyone? Weird & ignorant attitude. Or just on the wind-up.

I was speaking to a friend the other day who said she hates seeing the St George's flag on people's houses because she automatically assumes they're racist or Reform types. They probably aren't, but sadly that's what's becoming the norm for people to feel I think.

For something which is only defined by custom, people seem to get inordinately worked up about the national anthem.

Isn't the great thing about customs that you can change them when you like ?

Well not really, they develop over time and constant use. Therefore if everyone was to sing Bas Baa black sheep every time the king appeared and at sporting events rather than GSTK then after a few decades there might be an argument Bas baa black sheep has become a de facto national anthem.

This is really what’s happened to a certain extent with Jerusalem which is so bloody annoying and Blake’s probably spinning in his grave.

Does she think the same when houses in other countries display their flag?

I tend to think the same, although it's counterproductive. We shouldn't be letting the Far Right hijack the flag, and if more people use it it's less likely to happen Zi think.

Isn't the great thing about customs that you can change them when you like ?

Not unilaterally you can't.

You may be able to opt out of current customs but you can't easily impose new ones.

No, but on our street, with the people who insist on displaying them, I can see her point TBH.

It's the families who come out with the casual racism and sexism. The same ones who tell me I'm "so lucky" my husband works so hard (and miss the fact I also work) to give me and our child a good life. (Don't get me wrong, I am very lucky with my DH but that's not the point).

Somehow it's become very English to be ashamed of being English.