Should Labour abolish the two child benefit cap?

[changefromhr]

In two minds about this. Yes for those who find themselves on benefits after having more than two children (job loss, divorce etc) but perhaps not for those who choose to have more than two children when they have never worked (disabled families excepted).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/11/uk-two-child-benefit-cap-affected-1-6-million-children-last-year-figures-show

Then we need to spend the money we do have differently. We don’t need pensions rising disproportionately to other benefits. I don’t want children not having enough to eat while I get a few extra quid every month. This government doesn’t have the impetus to buy the grey vote and should be prepared to make brave decisions.

Yes, I would like to see far more teeth to the child maintenance system. And if men "aren't earning" they can accrue a debt to the state and the state can pay their share in the meantime

I volunteer for a charity that supports many single mothers and they are all in desperate situations and none of them get a penny from the man.

I like this as it directs the money towards the children.

I am very torn as I think some people would continue to have more children the more money they get but then it’s not those children’s faults.

Find another way to support children in poverty that doesn’t incentivise having more.

No. Working people should not subsidise other peoples children.
People need to plan carefully for children and make sure they can pay for them. There should be an emergency short-term benefit for people with more than 2 children in the event of job loss, but it needs to be monitored.

It would take a long time, but I think the cap should be implemented for children being born in a years time onwards. Then anyone who has a child is aware they won't be entitled when they get pregnant and need to be sure they can manage without, but children already born / conceived won't be put into poverty for now changing the goalposts

Interested to know whether everyone saying it shouldn’t be scrapped, don’t have children if you can’t afford them, are pro-abortion? For any reason, including not being able to afford to feed another child.

But they won’t because they want to get elected again in four/five years, so they do short term things that win votes, not long term things that cause genuine change. It happens all the time.

the cap has been in for 7 years

Plus you see so many threads on here where the man moves into a new relationship and suddenly gets a desire to retrain/go to part time/become a stay at home dad.

I think in those situations they should still have to pay a basic amount and if they can't pay it in cash they can take out a loan from the state (secured against their house if they own one)

Pro-abortion for any reason whatsoever. And believe there needs to be a system change in how we fund impoverished children, not just throwing more money at parents, because some will still not be responsible and the children will remain impoverished.

Yes, because the scale of poverty in larger families is absolutely scandalous - over 50% of children in households with 4+ children are living in poverty. Ending the two child benefit cap would be the most effective way of reducing this.

I think a complete programme of education/public information is needed to completely shift attitudes.

It needs to become socially unacceptable to be a man who doesn't support his children financially.

It needs to become the norm that instead of vilifying a struggling parent and ostracising them for DC's behaviour, neighbours support them, it takes a village etc. Struggling families would need to learn to accept that help.

A proper SureStart programme needs reinstating. That was so successful in improving outcomes for everything from health to education, madness that it was cut so drastically.

And yes, parents need to work. Whole communities where all families are claiming benefits is good for no one, especially the children, and that needs to be unacceptable too, with education and support to change it.

As others have said, and I’ve been saying for a long time now, make the fathers pay! Why there can’t be some kind of law that makes men 50/50 financially responsible for their progeny until the age of 18/21 is beyond me. I have never understood why the state steps in when parents separate. The dads should be made to pay, just like they would have done pre-separation/divroce. Not paying should be a criminal offence. Single mothers vilified? Where did that come from? They’re the heroines. Errant fathers are the ones who should be shamed into oblivion 🤯

Oh and we need to undo the damage done by Right to Buy. We need enough good quality social housing, at sensible rents so that working parents can actually afford to support their families.

but they do seem to want to limit their work hours because of disincentives to work more

This -I know so many people who are careful only up work the nicer of hours that maximises their benefit ‘entitlement’

No!!
These choldren have all bwen choseb by families. In fact extra 1m households.

If the gov want to spend money

Improve all education

Increase child benefit. Its like £20 a week
Secondary bus is 800+ a year. Lunches are probably £3 a day. Uniform probably min £200 a year (if incl shoes/trainers etc). Swimming lessons £28 a month.
Even just those costs im up to £1600 a year for 5 yrs of secondary.

I think you will otherwose spend uo woth those paying for the kods by working having few kids.

How many of these 1.5m households are even claiming /entitled to UC anyway for their 2 kids rpthey can claim for. Surely some are above earnings limit or savings etc

No.

and yes, I agree with the poster who said shitty dads should be made to pay for their children.

And what about the children whose parents don't or can't plan carefully? And those whose parents did plan carefully but then found that their circumstances had unexpectedly changed?

Is it just tough luck for those children? Do we, as a society, have no responsibility for them? Do we tell them that their basic needs may not be met but that's just the lottery of life and they need to suck it up?

That's not the kind of society that I want to live in, personally.

so yes -make fruit available in schools (not to take home) - free second hand uniform etc (another argument for school uniform) free lunch and breakfast for all -and take away child benefit entirely by the state more efficiently spending it than the parents would

No. 2 children are funded, that’s enough .
and I’m a Labour supporter

NC. I'm a single mum on benefits and was working part time due to health issues when my husband walked out leaving me with two dc. He refused to have the dc like he did when he was here and due to my shifts I struggled to find a child minder who could take the dc early enough. I did but my child would be crying the whole mile long walk there because they were so tired because they had to get up and out of the house 2 hours earlier than normal. I couldn't drive as I hadn't passed my test and he took the car and the money for lessons.
He leases a huge car that costs £800 a month. He pays £200 for his dc. The child maintenance system needs to change to make absent fathers more accountable. He criticises me being on benefits but he won't pay a penny more for the dc.
We don't have a lavish lifestyle. I skip meals. I'm a carer for a family member now and get a whole £2 an hour for that. Those of us on benefits aren't living the high life. Those who think we are should try it for a few months and see how they get on.

And since this would be state schools only, might again disincentivise parents from fee-paying schools

it's FOR THE CHILDREN

Given that the parent(s) can spend the money on absolutely anything, from warm clothing and nutritious food for the DC, to tattoos, smack and vodka for themselves, that's nonsense.

@OnTheShelfie I'm a centre left voter but unfortunately I agree with you- the idea that more money means it would automatically bring the children out of poverty is somewhat naive. I also know of several mums getting very good maintenance which doesn't count towards UC and they keep in full - plus full UC .in those cases they are better off then lots of middle income parents who work and get zilch - I think the whole system needs looking at-

Previous post didn’t post
I know a lot of people who only work a certain nunervof hours to maximise their benefit ‘entitlement’
Do away entirely with child benefit and instead let the state spend it on provision in schools -eg uniform/meals etc, for all pupils - then it is clearly going to the benefit of children.