Managing people is haaaaaard

[Mehmeh22]

So I manage a new team of people. They all seem fine apart from one.

When they started, they said they needed training, even though at the interview my manager loved them. No biggie, we can support that.

However I've noticed they go through my diary, and add themselves to group meetings im attending without saying anything and also signing up to training without telling me "It's all helpful for my development" is the reply. Bare in mind the other new starter isn't like this.

Recently, they have clearly been talking to the other manager because they do know more about the area the member of staff is covering. This would be fine but then when I ask them to do something, it's all "let's check with other manager".

I ask to speak to them and they say "sorry I'm busy", yet expect me to drop everything.

Their workload has now increased as they've been here longer, and they can't spend as much time 'researching and training' as before. They said, can we refuse further cases?' Absolutely not. You just need to manage your work load and possibly start doing the job rather than focusing on training...

The most recent one is them going through my diary, contacting someone I'm meeting, asking to meet them, and then coming back to me asking to join about a specific thing that's nothing to do with why I'm meeting them.

My manager likes this person and said this is fine......Am I being unreasonable? Or am I losing the plot?

You and your manager need to sort out who is responsible for the day to day oversight of this person.

if it’s you, they need to get out of the way and let you manage.

if it’s them, then you’re role here is going to be painful forever so I’d look for a new job.

The issue isn’t the employee. The issue is lack of clarity about whether you’re entitled to manage them or not. Because if you were confident you had authority to manage them you’d have spoken to them and addressed the issues and put them on a performance plan if they didn’t fall into line. And your manager would back you up instead of undermining you.

it would have been very easy for your manager to say at any point -“you report to Mehmeh22, why are you bringing this to me? You need to resolve it with her to her satisfaction”.

they may have unintentionally created the ability for your staff member to undermine you, but you and they need to sort that out first and then you can address the other issues.

I completely agree Hazel Biscuit. The other manager is nice and doesn't want the responsibility but gets FOMO easily and sticks her oar in. She likes to be the one with the good ideas and solutions and I think feels a little....threatened? By me when I am good at my job...hard to explain. I

It's easy to say leave. Compared to the last job, this is a breeze.

I've addressed it with my boss but I feel a bit gaslighted cause no one can understand why I have an issue

Managing people is awful, I hated personally but deep down I know I'm not suited to it. That said, they're completely pushing you around here. That has to stop. Right now they see you as a soft target. Lock down your diary and make it clear that they need to clear meetings with you in advance. And 'personal development ' is generally part of a mutually agreed plan, rather than them swanning off doing whatever they want.

Sounds completely out of control. As mentioned above there can’t be two managers it’s a recipe for undermining and manipulation, as you have discovered.

you need to tell the other manager what you need in terms of support and boundaries.
The hijacking your diary thing is just weird and passive aggressive, I’d end that. Perhaps you could try holding a planning meeting and one item will be your diary events for the next week and who “I’d really like to join me for that”. They all sound ambitious but lazy and entitled the focus on training and access to higher ups/ clients who you are meeting gives that away. So use that desire to your advantage hand out courses and access as sweeties

I manage someone like this and am in a 3 way situation. It's goes deep in a way I can't be bothered to explain but it was happening before I joined.

The fundamental thing that motivates this person is personal power. They do not care much about harmony. They also don't like doing hard things themselves.

I was fairly supportive of them. Interestingly though I raised a concern with my manager that they were going to them for things that I wasn't being looped in on. My manager denied having much involvement.

Next thing was the person I manage complained about me that I wasn't spending enough time with them.

It turned out they had assumed I was too busy. Anyway we now have a structured regular meeting which helps.

Ambitious and entitled...that's exactly it. But my manager and this other manager do not see it at all. And they stick together because the team were really incompetent before and they've kind of been through a hard restructure together.

I guess I just have to let this play out. They will see eventually.

Another thing that annoyed me today was claiming my idea as his own. I wish I could have verbally laid into him for that!!!!

I have little advice other than to say I'm managing people is literally the hardest thing I've ever done in my life! It's actually put me off starting a family as I cannot take any more responsibility and having it around the clock scares the hell out of me! It sucks

Another thing that annoyed me today was claiming my idea as his own. I wish I could have verbally laid into him for that!!!!

Er I think this is your real issue. This needs to be nipped in the bud immediately.

Dump the management and have a family. You can be a dictator then 😁 seriously though, management isn't for everyone, there's no shame in it. I tried it and it was just not suitable for me. My talents lie in other areas (far, far away from people!)

My god that's exactly the same situation. They went through multiple managers before me and had that experience so they stick together too.

Op, keep telling yourself you are competent. Use positive language with yourself. Keep a note of all things and deal with them. The separate issue is whether you want the stress of it. Personally I love managing and have always maintained that. What I don't like is lack of clarity and that's where asking questions is good. I will also express my concerns.

I will ask for what I need.and I will decide when I am good and done.

I agree this is the real issue. Are you and the other manager both female? If so I think there might be some sexism at play where your male subordinate thinks he is your equal.

Who was he speaking to when claiming your ideas? I agree it's probably not a good idea to reprimand him in front of others. However, if he's said "I think xxx" and it's repeating what you've suggested then you can say something like "I'm glad to see you were paying attention in meeting y." or "It's good to know you read my email z." where the meeting/email is where you shared your idea.

What is he like with the rest of the team? Does he treat them as equals or is he trying to exert some kind of authority over them (and does it differ between the male and female colleagues)?

Another thing, after the boundaries are set and the other manager has been dealt with, if you want to turn this around you need to be on top of everything you need to read every email, report, memo and make notes on every conversation and spend time fitting it all together, so you actually know what is going on better than everyone else. It is a lot of work but once everyone realises that there is no chance of bulshitting you then they will become a bit easier to manage

Another thing that annoyed me today was claiming my idea as his own. I wish I could have verbally laid into him for that!!!!

Now you know what they’re like, make everything you discuss with them is followed up in writing. Everything. Don’t discuss ideas with them unless you follow up in writing.

I’m on secondment ATM. Before I went, I told one of the people I managed that, no, they could not spend three weeks overseas for work. They tried to claim that I’d agreed it- new LM checked with me. I fired the email I sent telling him no (and listing my reasons for it) straight to her. He’s now under review. He’s been a bloody nightmare and tbh I wish I’d done it sooner.

Every 1-2-1 we’ve had I documented since the first day I realised he was going to be a problem - and, before I left, I made him confirm via email he was content with the write up.

TBH in my experience, men take being managed by a woman badly. Someone will say I’m being sexist…but I’ve never met a man who liked being managed by a woman.

I'm sorry to jump on this thread. I'm finding it really helpful for myself as in the final stages of sorting it out.

Mine does try and boss other people round a little. Both female but culture plays a part.

I like the FOMO/threatened analogy but I would caution against reading too much into other people's intentions - although I've described the person I manage in this way I also think it's a red herring as the only evidence you have is what you directly see and what you directly hear. Also what you feel is a good clue. But making assumptions about what is going on is very very dangerous (I am working with a coach and she always maintains this approach in how she works and its seems a good solution focused way to be).

I like the principle of clarifying who has overall day to day responsibility and getting that documented.

Telling the manager what I need in terms of support and boundaries, in order to maintain my performance and that of my team. Will give that some thought but any pointers welcome.

The bit I can't get over is that they go through your diary and add themselves to meetings and book their time up with training they don't need. You are going to have to become more direct about what they can spend their time doing or not doing. I would talk to HR about this and agree a plan to tackle him.

Gosh as others have said you need to deal with this fast now.

Management of people isn't easy but it's a skill you can learn. Are you managing or leading? It sounds as if the other two are leading (their embracing of this persons initiative etc) and you want to manage (task based) Is your role of control or to inspire and motivate. There is a subtle difference however respect is vital within both.

Either way, a bit like parenting the management team need to be consistent so I would start with setting up a meeting with the other two, explain the situation clearly and unemotionally and then give your suggested approach and why in terms of the business this is the approach you prefer. Could simply be to provide synergy with the role of the other employee or could be to achieve objectives that are part of new guys work.

Then back to the new employee perhaps with one of the others, just to send the message you are a United group of managers, to straighten it out in the form of a first week / month / pre holiday or whatever check in. Explain clearly what you need from this person get them to agree or disagree and depending on which way it goes move forward.

For my sins HR is my specialty.

The person you’re line managing sounds like a disrespectful arse. I’m guessing they’re in a probation period, so these things need nipping in the bud. I would invite them to a meeting and discuss your issues with them. If they’re outside of probation, do this anyway.

One thing to keep up your sleeve depending on how the conversation goes is you could suggest you’re concerned because it seems there’s a possibility of the role not being a good fit for them i.e. a heads up to say I’m not happy with how you’re performing.

Does your place have a practice of “recorded conversations?” We used to call them file notes a few years back at various other places I’ve worked. The issues you’re describing are worthy of a recorded conversation and you telling this person, “don’t do this again!”

Sounds to me you’ve got a blend of conduct, personality and performance issues at play. Is he actually doing work assigned to him? My hunch is eventually but could be getting things done quicker. This is because you put, “can we refuse further cases?' Absolutely not. You just need to manage your work load and possibly start doing the job rather than focusing on training...” in your OP.
I’d pick him up on this because he’s doing the age-old trying to find more “interesting” things to do because he’s bored with the work he’s asked to do.

Calendar surfing - this is rude and you should tell this person so. I’d ask them to stop. Are you using a Microsoft Outlook calendar? If so, perhaps start adding future meetings in but setting them to “private,” so if this oaf continues to calendar surf he won’t be able to see the details?

Signing up to training without informing you - I’d tell this pillock they need to let you know/ask. Are they even signing up to things that are relevant? We had a case in our own team once where someone was doing this and a lot of the courses she was signing up for weren’t relevant and she also forgot to attend several, which caused headaches too.

Sorry I’m busy when you ask to speak to them -unacceptable. You’re the manager and asking to speak to them is not an unreasonable request.They should be available when you ask.

Contacting client behind your back and then Inviting himself to the meeting with the client - rude, not something he was asked to do and then it transpires he’s wasting time. Ask to not do this again.

If this person is in probation, act quickly and use the options. You could justifiably have a conversation about these issues, set expectations and consider using the option of extending probation due to areas requiring improvement. Ultimately if they’re not getting the tasks assigned done quickly enough and are procrastinating, “being busy,” doing other crud, that’s not acceptable.
I think you could justifiably cite the “I’m busy” when you’ve asked to speak to them and the whole going to the other manager as communication and conduct issues. It’s rude!

If they’re outside of probation, have a look at your own organisation’s performance management policy. If it’s like all the ones I’ve worked with there’s usually an informal stage. You could potentially explore this.

Think you need to set expectations, clarify what you want of them in terms of improvement, timescales for when they need to achieve these by and if they are still causing issues, potentially move on to more formal action.

Hope this helps.

Make your calender private

“Another thing that annoyed me today was claiming my idea as his own. I wish I could have verbally laid into him for that!!!!”

This isn’t on. He’s a red flag- obviously resents you. The calendar and training is annoying- but this is a problem.

Im not HR but this summarises exactly what i would do with HRs support /knowledge.

On the training pieces the only thing i might add is a training plan if appropriate or I'd also be clear any/all training needs my approval presign up.

On the " I'm busy" have a really specific response eg. A blanket im busy is not acceptable. Task switching is part of the job. Stop and contact me if you arent in a high priority meeting.
If in a client meeting i dont expect an immediate response but i do expect you to contact me straight after.

Id also speak to your linemanager and make sure they are aware of the problematic behaviour and that you ate putting this guy on notice to shape or ship out.

My guess is he wont shape up and again if stay close to HR to manage hin out.

This is all really helpful information (I'm sounding like him now!! Shudder if i hear that phrase again! ). I didnt specify genders, but yes, I am managing a man and the other manager is a woman.

I would LOVE to use his probation period to reprimand him. Problem is, its a small organisation and my manager and the other manager who is at my level and undermining me (by accident) love him and think he's amazing. But they are not listening to him banging on about needing 'development' but then getting worried about the actual workload and then dismissing me when I say its time to focus on the actual work now youve been here two months.

This is why I posted this because I wondered...is it me??

It is not all you.

Manage now or deal with it forever. I promise that won’t be the preferred outcome.

It's difficult to know because we've only heard on side, but they sound proactive to me.

If there are things it's inappropriate for them to join, you need to just tell them they're not able to join, but developing aonoen who's keen to learn is the best bit of managing IMO, this will be why your boss likes them.

I love a staff member who wants my job and encourage them to do as much as possible.

Why do they love him?
Is it just he is a nice guy?

Start with identifying concrete performance issues and try and get them on side

Can you extend the probation if he isn't reaching his targets?

You don't need to get involved in if he is a nice person or not - the issue is he isn't doing the job he is meant to be doing.