AIBU to think we’ll get an EHCP?

[Abawaba123]

Two kids. Both autistic. Before applying, will these levels of need qualify for an EHCP?

Child A (9 years old, going into year 5)

• about a year behind
• interventions out of school: weekly speech therapy, weekly play therapy for anxiety, regular occupational and sensory therapy
• Interventions in school: weekly social skills group, weekly small group support for English and maths, allowed to wear modified uniform, allowed fidget toys, a wobble chair, and sensory breaks. Must sit at front of class to have regular prompting/support to stay focused. Cannot write legibly, uses laptop.
• attendance around 90percent, plus misses some lessons most weeks - school refusal due to anxiety
• Cannot take part in swimming/football so just watches
• Generally anxious/angry a lot of the time
• cannot be alone in a room (anxiety), including the toilets (nb needs no help toileting but needs somebody just outside the door)

Child B (7, going into year 3)

• About one year behind
• Interventions out of school: weekly speech therapy, regular occupational therapy.
• Interventions in school: Weekly 1 to 1 support for English, weekly social skills group
• Needs 1 to 1 support for swimming
• Needs prompting/guidance to eat
• Needs a visual timetable, needs extra support (like a TA going with him) for changes/trips to new places
• Often needs support navigating friendships
• Inappropriate social behaviour - eg approaches strangers (adults and kids) and strokes their faces
• Generally comes across as much younger; people usually guess he’s 5ish.

YABU - these kids can be supported in mainstream with the school’s normal resources
YANBU - these kids will qualify for EHCPs

Obviously if you think the answer is different for each kid then please say so!

My son has an EHCP and I'd say his needs are lower than those you've listed- similar though. His was granted in 2020 which strangely seemed to help, it was mostly sorted over the phone. I really didn't think he would get one.

Haven't read the whole thing but it usually has to be that a child is 2-3 years behind to really be considered. One year isn't that bad. That's an autumn baby vs a summer baby!

it usually has to be that a child is 2-3 years behind to really be considered.

This isn’t correct. Some LAs and some schools will tell you this but it isn’t the case.

@nearlymrs thank you, that’s encouraging

@strawberryandtomato a lot of LAs try to impose that restriction, but that’s not part of the legal test.

I honestly think we may reach this point in around 20 years. It’ll become an issue like the ageing population, housing crisis etc where everyone wonders why nobody saw it coming while ignoring the fact anyone who did raise it was shouted down

I work in the LA and one of my jobs is to be a member of the SEND Panel which agrees or turns down EHCP requests. Based on what you’ve said, your children meet the legal test for assessment but this is a low threshold. If they say no to assess, I would certainly challenge at that stage.

Whether they actually get a Plan will depend largely on the evidence from school. The school will need to show they cannot meet need from their existing budget and resources. This is often interpreted as needing to spend over £6k per child per year in terms of support and interventions. This is not a legal test and you can get a Plan without it, but they will likely turn it down if school cannot evidence why they need additional funding. There will need to be extensive evidence of the Graduated Approach (assess, plan, do, review) having limited impact and the children not making good progress. If the children can be supported from the school’s existing resources it is unlikely they will be issued with Plans as this is basically mainstream education working as it should - most children with SEND (including diagnoses) do not have Plans.

and the children not making good progress.

This isn’t always the case. It could be necessary for an EHCP to be issued because a child is only making progress because they are receiving provision (such as the multiple therapies) that wouldn’t typically be available within ordinarily available provision in a state mainstream school.

But if these are all in place without the Plan, what will it add?

It will legally secure the provision and ensure it is enforceable. It may be they also need more than they are receiving. It could also be OP is currently funding some or all of the provision and having the SEP in F would ensure they are funded.

It could be. But on the assumption that the OP isn’t funding it, and it is in place without a Plan, just having a need for it is not necessarily going to mean one is issued. That’s not to say one wouldn’t later be agreed at Tribunal, and it may well be a yes before that. But if everything is in place, the children’s needs are being met and they are making progress, that suggests the system working as it should without one. I am speculating as we all are, given I don’t know details of the case, but that is often the rationale for not issuing one.

If the provision that is in place already is working for them, then even with an EHCP they are unlikely to get more support. School staffing is really stretched by the high amount of need, most of which does not attract extra funding.

1:1 in my school used to be true 1:1. Now staff will be pulled any time it’s not a safety issue to support other children.

The LA may refuse to issue, they often act unlawfully, but the OP should appeal.

Other examples of situations where progress is only being made/needs are only being met because provision in excess of what is typically available in a mainstream is being provided include where a school is currently funding 1:1 themselves. That 1:1 could be removed at any time and isn’t typically available long term in a state MS without it being detailed, specified and quantified in F. Sometimes you see the problem when the primary has funded 1:1 but not bothered to request an EHCNA and on transition to secondary 1:1 isn’t provided (as it legally doesn’t have to be and is unenforceable) and the child flounders. It could also apply where parents self fund an independent school and the child is only coping because of the small class sizes. Or where a school is funding AP because a child can’t cope in school full time. That AP could stop at any moment.

If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F, it must be provided and can be enforced.

The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring provision in F is provided. That includes funding it at an appropriate level. EHCPs can be fully funded, but LAs won’t do that unless forced. Staffing is not a lawful excuse for failure to comply with section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014.

A school funding AP can evidence the need for a Plan due to the costs involved. That’s quite a straightforward request usually, if the needs are long-term. That’s not the same as support from agencies such as SALT.

Legally, it is the same. It is SEP which is not typically available within ordinarily available provision at a state MS.

Good luck OP! My eldest sounds similar to yours (also going into yr 5) but my ehcp has just been rejected. Reason is because he 'can cope currently'. He's just as you describe, likes to follow the rules and will mask, but underneath is a bundle of stress and fear. He's only coping because his teacher this year is brilliant, and gives a lot of leeway, no guarantees for future years and of course think g ahead to SAtS and yr 7 transition, there's no way he will cope. Also my thinking is he is 9, he shouldn't just be bloody 'coping' he should be thriving, enjoying, and fully accessing his education. Not just hanging on by a thread. I'm going to appeal but I'm just not sure if to bother with the mediation first.

Both of my girls with anxiety due to ASD (or in one case suspected ASD - still on the waiting list) have been given EHCPs and specialist placements. Anxiety may be common but if it interferes with a child's attendance and progress at school, it is absolutely a grounds for requiring an EHCP (if the needs are above and beyond the usual resources of a school).

Personally, I would get the certificate and submit to SENDIST. LAs often use mediation as a delaying tactic. If they are going to concede they will do so regardless of whether you actively partake in mediation or just get the certificate.

I think the situation with that mum reflects your council’s attitude rather than child’s needs. Unfortunately it is the reality.
Both of your DC are at this age when some time went after diagnosis and therapies pattern is established, they are at the same school, settled, their age still allows high degree of adults involvement in their life. So they are doing good.
Secondary schools and teenage years are very different and more complicated so I would start fighting for EHCPs now before breakdowns and crises.
And yes, they go look as EHCPs children for me. I’m not a professional, my older teen daughter has with additional refs.

Just helped my friend with an EHCP for her daughter. She didn’t pay for anything and had those reports done. She was a bit ahead of herself and applied for the EHCP before she started primary, so it was refused as didn’t have those reports. Once they’d done the reports it was approved. Her daughter is non verbal (she’s nearly 6), not potty trained etc so it was frustrating when it was refused but it was just red tape, the reports needed doing. I don’t think she’s getting all the support she needs though, no actual speech therapy is happening, she cannot say a single word and should have started it a few years back but a location move complicated things.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you! I was thinking it sounds like a stalling technique but am confused by the whole thing and didn't know if I had to show willing with mediation. I also hadn't seen about getting a certificate, I spoke to the woman who sent me the decision email today and she didn't mention that. I feel like my head is a mess with it all so clearly I need to keep researching. Sorry to do a mini hijack on your thread OP.

You have to consider mediation. You don’t have to actively partake.

The decision letter from the LA should include your right of appeal and about mediation including the contact details of the mediation company.

IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are excellent resources if you haven’t already seen them.

You should definitely meet the threshold for an assessment for both. However, I doubt that the needs are high enough to get over the ECHP hurdle . The thresholds for EHCPs are very high. only a small number if pupils with support needs qualifies and the needs you describe, whilst significant, are not really that high and they are not very far behind.
Also, you said school is meeting their needs ATM. So not sure what you hope to gain.

They are exreamly difficult to get my son diagnosed ASD and Dyslexic, only got his two year's ago at the age of 9. We had been applying since the age of 4.

I think a lot of the time if the school are able to support then without the EHCP you don't generally get them. We only got ours because the school couldn't meet his needs so needed the funding for a 1:1 support.

Just to clarify:

• we are paying for the various therapies, but not for the other interventions
• my eldest is going into year 5 so will move to secondary soon, we’re not in catchment for the schools I think he’d cope better at, so I’d like him to have an ehcp so either we get our school of choice or whichever school he goes to has to make the accommodations
• the school has said they’re not sure if they can continue to provide this level of support for our youngest, the younger year groups have more TAs etc so it’s been manageable, but if he doesn’t “improve” as he gets older it gets harder for them to meet his needs