AIBU to think we’ll get an EHCP?

[Abawaba123]

Two kids. Both autistic. Before applying, will these levels of need qualify for an EHCP?

Child A (9 years old, going into year 5)

• about a year behind
• interventions out of school: weekly speech therapy, weekly play therapy for anxiety, regular occupational and sensory therapy
• Interventions in school: weekly social skills group, weekly small group support for English and maths, allowed to wear modified uniform, allowed fidget toys, a wobble chair, and sensory breaks. Must sit at front of class to have regular prompting/support to stay focused. Cannot write legibly, uses laptop.
• attendance around 90percent, plus misses some lessons most weeks - school refusal due to anxiety
• Cannot take part in swimming/football so just watches
• Generally anxious/angry a lot of the time
• cannot be alone in a room (anxiety), including the toilets (nb needs no help toileting but needs somebody just outside the door)

Child B (7, going into year 3)

• About one year behind
• Interventions out of school: weekly speech therapy, regular occupational therapy.
• Interventions in school: Weekly 1 to 1 support for English, weekly social skills group
• Needs 1 to 1 support for swimming
• Needs prompting/guidance to eat
• Needs a visual timetable, needs extra support (like a TA going with him) for changes/trips to new places
• Often needs support navigating friendships
• Inappropriate social behaviour - eg approaches strangers (adults and kids) and strokes their faces
• Generally comes across as much younger; people usually guess he’s 5ish.

YABU - these kids can be supported in mainstream with the school’s normal resources
YANBU - these kids will qualify for EHCPs

Obviously if you think the answer is different for each kid then please say so!

@SalmonWellington thats interesting, thank you.

’we’ll have to’ doesn’t conjure up billions of pounds.

You don’t have to pay for a tribunal and they like their own EP reports.

Absolutely! Wouldn’t need to modify it (and single him out as different) if it wasn’t so archaic and pointlessly formal.

Cheaper than young people not getting an education, paid work and ability to pay taxes.

They’re not working now as it is. Disability benefits are driven by young people not working due to mental health or ‘invisible’ disability diagnoses.

Not for the EHCNA, but for an EHCP hearing you do need a lawyer.

Schools will appeal for you. We don’t have a single appeal or tribunal and are not sharp elbowed. We’re just coping .

And being out of school, on waiting lists for treatment with no hope for the future doesn’t help with this.

I don’t think any amount of help will get a lot of them back into work tbh.

Sometimes independent assessments are required for Tribunal. Not so much for refusal to assess, and sometimes not for refusal to issue depending on what other evidence you have, but often for placement &/or content appeals.

LA reports are often very poor in comparison to independent assessments from someone with SENDIST experience. LA reports are less detailed, specified and quantified and often far less comprehensive.

If independent assessments are needed and parents aren’t eligible for legal aid but can’t afford them, there are charities who can help like Parents in Need.

Personally, I wouldn’t pay for them before requesting an EHCNA. I would save the money for if you need to appeal later. Anyone good will have a waiting list and OP doesn’t want to delay requesting an EHCNA.

You don’t need a lawyer to appeal to SENDIST. You do need evidence.

Schools cannot appeal to SENDIST.

Bull shit. If my daughter gets the treatment she needs and has been suggested by her team alongside support to get level 3 qualifications she absolutely will work. She wants to, most do.

It isn’t just about the cost of working vs not working. It is about ongoing care costs. Some disabled young people will never live independently, but some could with the right support as a child and young person. Provision as a child and young person can save a fortune longer term. Similar with healthcare costs.

I just think the level of need is so high now it’s impossible to meet. The numbers actually scare me, they’re doubling every few years.

Some people say it's better identification of need, but that's definitely not the whole story. Our schools for children with very severe levels of needs, who would never have been missed, are full, with new classrooms being added every year, just to try to keep up with demand- they are permenant building sites!

This will be hugely controversial, and I'm sure I will be eaten alive - but at least 50% of the children in our secondary school for children with profound needs were not born in the UK, and therefore their mums did not have access to the same maternity care we have here, and have a higher chance of suffering brain damage during pregnancy and at birth. This together with some having parents who are first cousins and as a consequence there is a higher rate of genetic abnormalities. We absolutely have a duty to educate these children, but this does go a little way in explaining the increase in very high SEN needs.

My eldest, school said unlikely to get ehcp.
Awaiting asd diagnosis
Has been violent (biting/scratching,hitting) reception and y1
Whilst not behind academically has severely underperformed made little progress with reading y2-y6 ie sats 113-->110
Maths she was never doing any work
1 friendship by y6
Depressed and suicidal.
With no ehcp so no transition help to secondary.
Secondary have been ok, but obvioysly new teachers dont realise what she is like and so encs yp with sanctions!
She doesnt get and needs extra time for maths so doesnt finish the tests.
Her books are actually just full of doodles.
And constant low level bullying.

Honestly? My local LA is quite generous and on 5 percent EHCPs, and I would say your kids' needs currently fall within the ordinarily available provision (which means, they need support, but not over and above what school should provide from their delegated funding).

As pps have said, on the one hand the bar for ehcna assessment is set low in law, so if you appeal they would probably agree to assess, but I wouldn't be surprised if you had to go to tribunal to get an echp. The bit of legislation that isn't so often quoted is that SEN code of practice says LA must consider whether school have coordinated outside agencies, that needs should be severe and persistent, school should have used totality of delegated budget attempting to meet the needs, and their best endeavours, to meet child's needs.

Image from ipsea

Needs could be met if there was less unlawfulness.

Our schools for children with very severe levels of needs, who would never have been missed, are full, with new classrooms being added every year, just to try to keep up with demand- they are permanent building sites!

I agree and while there is more awareness now I don’t believe for a moment it accounts by itself for what we are seeing unfold. Privately I think we will look back in 20 years and wonder why on earth nobody queried why the number of children deemed as having SEN doubled every couple of years. A gentle rise could be attributed to better awareness but this isn’t a gentle rise - it’s a really scary one which everyone seems determined to ignore.

OP’s DC’s needs clearly can’t be met from ordinarily available provison. For a start they are receiving multiple therapies that aren’t available within a typical state mainstream.

The SENCOP isn’t legislation and does not override the legal threshold set out in the Children and Families Act. As the screenshot you posted says, they are not part of the legal teat itself.

I'm sorry I don't understand. Who is we? What do you mean you don't have an appeal/tribunal - you've not needed one? Unfortunately plenty of people do need to appeal and many of them don't have the capacity to do so.

I dunno. That's about 15%ish of the education budget, but right from the outset of state eduation it was anticipated around 20% of pupils would have some kind of SEN. And you would anticipate that 20% of people costing a little more than the other 80% as it includes a wide variety of needs it seems a reasonable percentage of the whole.

I agree with this. Apparently something like nearly 1 in 5 of the working age population now is not seeking or available for work and much of this is people 'too unwell to work' - i honestly think there needs to be major research into this. As a society sadly the balance will get to a point its not actually possibly any more. Imagine a scenario where 40% of us somehow have to fully support the other 60% who have very high needs and cannot work. It just isnt possible, the numbers dont work? Thats the direction we are headed and people seem to think that magically it can all be paid for.