To ban crossbows & Military style knives in UK?

[StarryIsabella]

First time poster, long term reader!

So I've been following the horrific news today about the monster who killed his ex partner, her sister and mother yesterday in Enfield (London).

Louise Hunt- (25) Hannah Hunt- (28) Carol Hunt- (61)

Reports state that he used a crossbow and other weapons (mainly knives) apparently he killed them in quick succession all at once at their home yesterday.

It shocks me how someone can obtain a weapon like a crossbow that fires arrows rapidly with immense force that can easily break through bone and kill. It's literally a gun, it loads and fires to kill if that's your intention.

Does anyone think these kind of weapons should be banned? What purpose do they serve? If it does serve a purpose then at least install a licence to own one where they can do background checks and interview the person for their reasons to owning one.

Alas! Another woman who wanted to be independent was brutally murdered along other her sister and mother for it.

Just a quick edit: killings with crossbows have happened before in the UK

In 2010, 40-year-old Stephen Griffiths killed 3 women in Bradford that he didn't know. He later admitted he was obsessed with killers and had a hatred for women. All 3 women were complete strangers to him.

I'm an archer, we shoot various bows at my club. The overwhelming majority of people that own Bows of any type buy them from reputable sellers that require club membership details etc to show basic competence , you can't shoot at a club unless you have shown competence and passed a beginners course. We are governed. We love our sport and we are 100% responsible and pay fees for insurance and spend hundreds to thousands on equipment.

What checks do you need to own a razor sharp 10 inch kitchen knife? Because you can bet your bottom dollar a knife is much more dangerous not only if it's thrown at somebody but also in close quarters. It's incredibly hard to actually hit where you aim with a bow, even at 20 yards.

Also to clarify, for legal purposes, a bow isn't considered a weapon until the arrow is nocked. I can travel with my bow and arrows on my person but they aren't dangerous until the arrow is actually in place. It's very very bad form to travel with a strung bow and I imagine the popo would be called pretty quick.

Anyone travelling, or wandering around a public area (other than within very specific and obvious contexts) with a strung bow is an instant red flag. No archer would do that to a bow, let alone risk the public consternation it would cause!

I want society to foster a culture of deep shame applied to violent and abusive men. Led by men and linked to the sports, social activities and image men care about.

I agree. Male violence against women used to be despised.

Of course men still committed domestic violence and other crimes against women, usually in secret. But people expressed disgust, not admiration, for a man who demeaned himself by hitting a woman.

I suppose the big difference was that violent misogynist pornography wasn’t widely available, in fact I think it was illegal. Now violence against women is everyday entertainment.

With incidents like this, there is always a call to ban whatever weapon was used, which sadly misses the entire issue, which is that the victims would still be dead regardless of whether said weapon was banned. If someone wants to kill someone, then they'll find a way, be it with a weapon or their bare hands.

People asking about why anyone would want a crossbow; well, others here have listed many reasons. In addition, there are an increasing number of people who enjoy learning and mastering more traditional skills such as bushcraft and target practice. Bushcraft requires knives, axes etc... bladed tools but rather than seeking to murder people they are learning valuable skills like how to build a shelter, how to carve their own spoons, bowls etc... and such people are getting out in the fresh air and actually partaking in very worthwhile and perfectly innocent hobbies.

Archery type activities (involving crossbows, recurve bows, traditional longbows etc) tend to follow as they are part of the more traditional skillset. I know people who have their own land and simply enjoy target practice - it is actually an extremely calming activity and 99.999% of people who enjoy it will never have any intention of harming anyone - they simply enjoy developing their skill.

Some people may be a member of a club and as such will likely have membership with the BAA and/or other formal bodies. And yes there are crossbows that are more modern in design - same as modern recurve bows and compound bows - they are not the same as a traditional longbow or whatever, but the skill/hobby is effectively the same.

I don't agree that banning is the answer; all you do is punish those who own a knife or a crossbow for perfectly legitimate and innocent reasons while the person who committed the crime would still have found a way to do so regardless. A weapon being illegal is hardly going to deter someone who is out to murder someone; their regard for the law has long departed.

Really surprised by the responses here. This is a no-brainer ban. Who cares if the murders are rare. There shouldn't be any such murders! Also disagree that these 3 women would all have died if he'd just had a knife. Two of them could have run for help whilst he was killing one. With a crossbow, it's like a gun, so he can kill all 3 in quick succession. Killing 3 people with a knife would take quite a bit longer, so gives others the chance to escape.

The responses on here sound just like anti-gun control americans! "it's not the gun that killed, it's the murderer!" yes, but funnily enough you don't get mass gun murders in countries that don't have guns!

What purpose do they serve?

A hobby for strange men, incels, we all know the kind. They should be banned in our country as they dont serve any useful purpose at all.

Well considering they were found in different rooms, that’s total nonsense. And of course a man armed with a knife could kill them.

Sadly, I'm not sure in this case legislation around crossbows would have saved the poor women who were murdered this week. We will never know for sure and I totally agree that violence against women is not going to stop with such a ban.

I do however think it is ridiculous that a distance weapon with a multi thousand year history of effectiveness is available so freely and without more regulation.

This 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼

The argument that 99.9% of crossbow owners and rambo knife enthusiasts are either harmless incels or like playing Ray Mears in the field still doesnt wash. Find a different hobby or something else to collect.
Remember we used to allow handguns in the UK, but that was outlawed in 1997 after Dunblane. Again I'm sure the vast majority of the weirdos who used to frequent gun clubs with them had no intention of killing anyone, but there comes a point when the government has to put an end to these lethal "hobbies".

What happens after you've banned crossbows and the next man kills a woman by using a cricket bat? Ban the cricket bat?

Anything can be used as a weapon to kill and anyone in the mind of killing will make anything work to be a weapon.

What needs to change is how these men are dealt with. Sadly, there are always people that will make an excuse for them and there isn't a deterrent to stop men from doing this. Even other men defend them.

I think the op and some posters are failing to understand banning cross bows isn’t going to save even one woman.

Not this nonsensical argument.

If you cant see the differece between a hammer, a rolling pin or a cricket bat, compared to bowie knives or crossbows then we have a problem.

I think you need to read my other comments 🤷🏼‍♀️

So we're using the same argument as some Americans when talking about banning guns?

I really dislike the word incel... As if a man has to look super creepy in order to carry out such an atrocious act!

The monster in Enfield had just got out of a relationship and looked very normal!

But he wasn't normal, he was a coward who ended 3 women's lives because he couldn't accepted his ex has moved on.

The only problem I can see is the problem of men killing women and there being no real consequence for them. They don't see what they've done is wrong and then get given a feeble prison sentence.

Do you think banning crossbows and knives means men won't kill again?

Have you even bothered to read any other comments?

We are saying this as one of many steps to help protect women.

There's no one fix solution, there are many steps we must take.

Honestly what's the point of commenting on a thread if your too lazy to read what other people have said. 🤦🏼‍♀️

@YellowphantGrey It wont cure all ills but it removes some of the weapons available to them so yes every little helps. As I said earlier, handguns banned in UK since 1997, and more restrictive laws on Samurai Sword and other such nonsense since 2008. UK govt just needs to keep up this trend and remove as much temptation as possible.

So what will happen after crossbows are banned?

I'm not an incel. I'm a 45 yo grandmother. My DH is a 60 yo man who is nothing but gentle and would never harm anybody. My daughter is 15 and wants to be a lawyer. We all own bows and shoot in this country. It's been brilliant for our mental Heath and overcoming focus problems with ADHD etc. The community spirit is wonderful and in summer we have big club bbqs at our range after we shoot. We socialise at the pub after we do their lessons and have guest speakers once a month. There are 150 members in our group and we have a Paralympic and invictus athlete. We aren't doing anything wrong.

I hope if bows are banned then cars are too. And ladders. Trains. Dog leads. Ice. Trees. Necessary ask these things are involved in many many more avoidable deaths.

Stupid questions, shall we ban knives, shall we ban hammers, shall we ban cricket bats?

No, we do and should ban things that give you no fucking chance to fight back against, like big fuck off knives, automatic weapons, handguns, and crossbows.

Have a look will you when someone goes made with a knife in a shopping centre - still horrible, but compare it to the carnage with a automatic weapon. Had the murderer used a crossbow or gun instead of a hammer, all the Russells would be dead.

I'm not lazy and I've read them but your coming across as though a ban on crossbows will solve the problem of men killing women. It won't.

So I ask, what will the outcome of banning them be?

Banning an item doesn't mean the man will no longer kill.

The real action needs to be how these men are dealt with but no one seems to want to punish them, just ban things and hope that solves it.

It solves that particular problem with crossbows, or at least makes them a damned sight harder to get hold of.

It's a bit infantile to think you can make a piece of legislation that should end all woes.

Just because murder is illegal and people still get murdered does not mean we should not have the law in place.