Is my marriage toxic or within the realms of normal?

[Newname699032]

Posting here for traffic.
Apologies it may be long and thank you in advance for reading and replying.

Background: married 7 years, together 12 in total, both in our 30s. One child together. Love my husband but was never in that heady head over heels stage for him. Felt like he was more into me at the start and I think I found that attractive as I wanted to settle down and get married etc.

He's a good guy fundamentally and I know he will ultimately always have my back and want what's best for me.

The issues are: he's lazy around the house, doesn't do his share and can be lazy with regards our daughter too in terms of doing his fair share there. He earns very well but wfh mainly and has a fair bit of flexibility around his hours.

He also can be what I often wonder is emotionally abusive? Example: tonight as I was standing at the counter literally not moving, he bumped his toe into me as he was passing and literally shouted something along the lines of 'Jesus christ ~my name~ my fucking toe' basically blaming me for that happened. And I lost my shit at him. Shouted at him how dare he blame me etc. At one point he went forward at me in an aggressive way but nothing physical followed that thankfully.

I should add that I'm not intimidated by him and can hold my own but I do feel like sometimes the only way to get through to him is to come down like a tonne of bricks and that's exhausting tbh. One positive I suppose is that he is always so quick to apologise and want to make things right. That's why I wonder are we just a bad fit?

In public though he can also be quite nasty I find and never seems to moderate his voice if we're having an argument. I think he knows I find that mortifying and am unlikely to go at him in public the way I would in private for speaking to me like that. I suppose at least there's no difference to his behaviour in private v public. He's quite what you see is what you get in general.

Luckily our child was asleep tonight but if she witnessed any of that I'd be horrified.

Would love some advice please.

Is he trying to start arguments with you in public regularly? I feel like most people's natural response would be to want to quickly diffuse a potential argument in public. It sounds like he has something wrong in his personality which is driving him to actively seek out conflict with you, I'm not sure it's usual for someone to act like that in a loving relationship.

Sounds toxic from what you've said if I'm honest. If a friend told me what you've written I'd be telling her the relationship didn't sound good at all.

Toxic and abusive, it’s not normal to behave the way he is towards you. He sounds very angry, the toe thing is really dramatic and over the top

He’s gaslighting you. I’m glad you are able to stand up for yourself and call him out on it. Has he always been this way or has something triggered it?

@Crab770 no he's not a software engineer and doesn't pay all the bills. I work full time too but as a teacher so at least get the holidays off. We pay the bills in proportion to our salaries. He's lazy as in does v v little around the house. He pays for a cleaner every two weeks as I feel like he can at least contribute that way which he agrees with. Although being married it's technically both our money I suppose.

I think the only reason I somewhat accept the inequality around the house situation is because my job at least offers good time off. But I still don't think it's OK.

I think tonight just triggered me as not only do I feel I do the lions share but then to have him blame me like that was just so pathetic.

In what way is he nasty?

Definite gaslighting goes on but it doesn't work, at least not these days. I literally interrupt and say stop gaslighting me.
I know I'm painting the worst picture here, obviously there's good in the relationship too and we get on, are affectionate and playful...but there's this other side to it. He can be sarcastic and abrasive. I just feel tired by that side of him. The thoughts of splitting up then just feel enormous and upsetting. Not to mention where we live is so expensive. I don't think there's an easy answer really.

Is ‘he paying’ for the cleaner as he thinks this negates him from doing the other 50% of the jobs/chores that are left? Therefore meaning that he’s bought his way out of his share?!! If that’s his thinking then you have a big problem.

Yeah pretty much. It's unsurprising he had to do very little at home growing up. Blows my mind really but that's how some boys were reared I suppose.

Definitely toxic and I’d agree emotionally abusive. I’d weigh up my options with regard to whether you want to stay with him and when everything is calm, lay out your expectations re. him not raising his voice or being nasty in public again. But be prepared to walk away though if you’re threatening it. And think about whether you’d want your child learning that it’s ok to put up with this behaviour from a partner. He “went forward” at you as a show of dominance. Remember that a common assault in UK law is something that causes you to fear unlawful force, it doesn’t have to just be physical. What were his intentions in coming forward at you?

It sounds toxic to me. When you point out a certain behaviour is upsetting and the other person carries on doing it anyway, you know you're not in a relationship. You're on the sidelines of someone else's life. That's not good enough, as you are finding out. Your partner should enhance your life. That's the measure.

I said that to him about trying to show his dominance by doing that. I suppose what I will say is just prior to this I had verbally lost my shit at him so I suppose I was being verbally abusive to call it what it is. All I'll say though is that doesn't exist in isolation. That wasn't the first time he'd blamed me over something stupid that had nothing to do with me and I will always defend myself even if it doesn't sound pretty. That's why I ask are we just toxic together? He's already apologised and trying to make up for it as is the usual pattern.

I find the contempt for him I feel in the moment quite difficult. I think that's my main question - do all relationships have their issues? Am I expecting too much or actually too little here?

I don't think 'toxic' is a particularly useful word. I wasn't raised in a particularly healthy or happy household, but what you describe doesn't sound all that bad to me. Obviously not ideal, but I can see how it could happen if you're both tired and stressed and snap at each other. It sounds like you both need to work on your communication and perhaps consider some counselling?

Be very, very cautious about how you react to his goading. He may be recording or secretly filming you, to use against you later.

It sounds like you over-reacted to him over the toe thing 😳 do your arguments blow up over trivial things like that often? I don't think my response would have been to lose it with him, probably would have just said ' you banged your foot on me, I was just standing here'! Do you argue a lot with aggressive shouting etc? Maybe you should wait until a calm moment and try and talk to him about how you're feeling? You both need to find a way to communicate without shouting and yelling. If you feel that he doesn't do his fair share of housework/childcare that's bound to cause some resentment.

“do all relationships have their issues?”

Yes, but the relationships that are worthwhile are the ones where the people actively work on their issues, with the end result being a stronger relationship. If he isn’t willing to fix his problems, and he definitely has them, then you have a dead-end of a relationship.

Ugh.

This is your one and only life.

Is this how you want to spend it?

It doesn't seem to me to be a clear victim/perpetrator dynamic. It sounds like you both think the only way of "getting through to the other" is through shouting and screaming.

If you can both recognise this harmful dynamic and openly and vulnerably work towards a place of love and respectful communication then that's incredible modelling for your child. If not, then it is what it is. I had parents who shouted and screamed at each other. Both miserable and mortifying, as the child.

PS I think it's good he hired a cleaner, that's a good solution when someone doesnt have capacity or inclination to do cleaning.

Sounds like the beginning of the end of my marriage. Sounds like the beginning too; I loved him, but I wasn't head-over-heals the way he said he was with me.

He was a teacher and I worked part time, but honestly he probably worked less than I did, he was out of the house at 7:50 and home napping by 3:45! Eventually he was made redundant so I was the only breadwinner, he still did nothing around the house, and referred to my job as a 'little part time job.'

It's a long story, but ended with him perpetually angry, our daughter traumatized, and a nasty divorce.

Get out while you can keep it civil.

I don't think my response would have been to lose it with him, probably would have just said ' you banged your foot on me, I was just standing here'!

It sounds like the OP has had years of these kinds of intense reactions from her DP and has become worn down to the point where she is now also having an intense reaction in return.

I understand this - before my abusive ex, I was the sort of person who people used to describe as "amazingly calm", "the sort of person who can talk anyone down off a window ledge", etc.

But after years of my ex lashing out at me over tiny things and me absorbing/deflecting/soothing his temper, I became worn down and eventually started to fight back/respond in kind, as it seemed like that was what made him back off fastest. Your nervous system gets reset to lower and lower points and eventually you have a hair-trigger response to the abuse.

Of course, abusive people then use this as a way to blame-share - "Well, we abuse each other!" No. I never proactively abused my ex, but I often wasn't proud of the way I behaved in response to him.

OP, I think your relationship does sound toxic and it seems like you are at the end of your tether. I don't imagine you want to be the person you are, shouting and feeling tense.

Unless your partner can see and accept that the way he behaves is unacceptable and commit to changing it, I think your relationship is doomed. I left my ex and although my nervous system is still sensitive more than two years on, I'm largely back to my old self and now can calmly respond to people behaving in upsetting ways.

More importantly though, as soon as I see that someone has a pattern of behaving in stressful ways towards me, I know that person is not someone I can have a healthy relationship with, and cut them out of my life as fast as possible. I think in the past, my unusual tolerance level/ability to remain calm in the face of poor behaviour actually meant I ended up with more of these kinds of people in my life (as few other people could tolerate them).

How is he gaslighting her? Do you know what gaslighting means?

He's a good guy fundamentally and I know he will ultimately always have my back and want what's best for me.

BUT
he's lazy around the house, doesn't do his share and can be lazy with regards our daughter too in terms of doing his fair share there.

At one point he went forward at me in an aggressive way

In public though he can also be quite nasty

Definite gaslighting goes on

I said that to him about trying to show his dominance by doing that

It can't be both OP.. So you need to understand he's not a good guy nor does he have your back. Based on that information it appears your relationship is bloody awful. Do you want to live like this for the next ten years?

I suppose what I will say is just prior to this I had verbally lost my shit at him so I suppose I was being verbally abusive to call it what it is. All I'll say though is that doesn't exist in isolation.
Nothing exists in isolation but that doesn't make this ok. If your behaviour is reactive then the answer is to end the relationship as it's an abusive one. If its your relationship dynamic then you both need to fully commit to fixing that (ie. therapy) or seperate. No one should be losing their shit with a child in the house. Sooner or later your DD will over hear this, she may have already. I only learnt a year down the track that my youngest had seen his Dad losing his shit. Kids often see a lot more then we realise.

I spent a long time excusing his behavior and making light of it. It wore me down and changed me as a person.