Is my marriage toxic or within the realms of normal?

[Newname699032]

Posting here for traffic.
Apologies it may be long and thank you in advance for reading and replying.

Background: married 7 years, together 12 in total, both in our 30s. One child together. Love my husband but was never in that heady head over heels stage for him. Felt like he was more into me at the start and I think I found that attractive as I wanted to settle down and get married etc.

He's a good guy fundamentally and I know he will ultimately always have my back and want what's best for me.

The issues are: he's lazy around the house, doesn't do his share and can be lazy with regards our daughter too in terms of doing his fair share there. He earns very well but wfh mainly and has a fair bit of flexibility around his hours.

He also can be what I often wonder is emotionally abusive? Example: tonight as I was standing at the counter literally not moving, he bumped his toe into me as he was passing and literally shouted something along the lines of 'Jesus christ ~my name~ my fucking toe' basically blaming me for that happened. And I lost my shit at him. Shouted at him how dare he blame me etc. At one point he went forward at me in an aggressive way but nothing physical followed that thankfully.

I should add that I'm not intimidated by him and can hold my own but I do feel like sometimes the only way to get through to him is to come down like a tonne of bricks and that's exhausting tbh. One positive I suppose is that he is always so quick to apologise and want to make things right. That's why I wonder are we just a bad fit?

In public though he can also be quite nasty I find and never seems to moderate his voice if we're having an argument. I think he knows I find that mortifying and am unlikely to go at him in public the way I would in private for speaking to me like that. I suppose at least there's no difference to his behaviour in private v public. He's quite what you see is what you get in general.

Luckily our child was asleep tonight but if she witnessed any of that I'd be horrified.

Would love some advice please.

He is nasty. that’s your feeling, not my words.

You don’t have to stay with a nasty, gaslighting, aggressive, changeable prick. It isn’t too much to expect a steady, happy state at home. Home is meant to be your safe place but you never know when his next turn will be. Shouting him down isn’t working. You could tell him you plan to leave of his behaviour doesn’t improve (he is consciously choosing to behave this way, it’s not accidental). Or you could just decide you’ve had enough. He sounds deranged so plan carefully whatever you choose to do. But don’t go on the same way. It’ll only get worse.

Do you regret marrying someone you never felt head over heels with? I had that stage with my DH but it was definitely the worst stage of our relationship, so volatile it actually took a while to get over the hurt we caused eachother. I value the more muted long term love, and commitment we have now.

I do think all relationships have their issues, marriage is fucking hard, we all bring our worst selves to our partners at times, and get disenfranchised by the endless day to day drudgery of life. Although it sounds like you have things to work through, would your DH be open to couples counselling? It could help him see your perspective. Talk through the toe incident, as he can better express his pain/frustration without using you as a punching bag. The public humiliation is a concern, even if it is unintended, as that is how he talks to you in private, the nastiness is unacceptable. Esther Perel is a couples therapist and has some insightful content YouTube, helped me realise that people are conflicting, and I gave my DH a little bit more grace.

Could it be your DH isn't that happy/feeling frustrated in general? Are there triggers for his abrasive, sarcastic side? Does the toe incident repeat itself? -- by that I mean completely overreacting about something and then using it as a reason to be vindictive towards you.

On my side note my DH works mainly from home, and it effects his mental health. The less he physically he does the less he wants to do. Without him even realising he slips into being a frustrated recluse, in the past he has been so incredibly lazy, a bit depressed, terrible diet. Now he swims often, plays poker once a week, takes better care of himself, and because of that he is happier and much more engaged in family life. Although he also pays for a cleaner, the cleaning is never going to be 50/50, my DH rather live in filth then clean, could you increase your cleaner to once a week? That seems fairer!

I find the contempt for him I feel in the moment quite difficult.

I understand this, but you have to realise the contempt you feel is a message to yourself that you are repeatedly ignoring.

There are two types of contempt: unjustified contempt and justified contempt but both are toxic in relationships.

Your DH treated you with contempt when you were just standing around minding your own business. This is unjustified contempt and it absolutely is toxic to relationships.

But sometimes feelings of contempt and resentment arise when one person is tolerating genuinely poor ongoing behaviour from another person.

In this case, the contempt is justified, but the toxic aspect is the person who is feeling the contempt remaining in the relationship in the hope that the other person might change.

It sounds like you are in the second situation. You have to recognise that there is no way to be in a healthy relationship with someone who you have lost respect for/developed contempt for based on their shitty behaviour. By staying, you are contributing to the toxic dynamic.

Thank you so much to everyone who has responded. I find the posts on here for the most part measured and intelligent so I do really appreciate it.

I now just sort of feel stuck and unsure how to proceed. I know he'll be verbally promising me change, improvement etc and I will feel pressured to move forward with him. In many ways it would be easier but I absolutely know that it won't be the end of these issues.

House work stuff aside, yes it's his abrasiveness/disrespectful way he can speak to me (both privately and publicly) that gets to me the most.

This post probably sums it up for me the most. I'm not trying to justify my behaviour but I do almost feel 'driven' to it at times.
The need to defend myself is getting stronger (it was always there but I'd have probably also been more so upset too at the time) whereas last night I didn't feel sad, just really really angry at him. And yes he backs down much quicker then.

You know him better than us and should listen to your gut.
That one incident regarding the toe doesn't sound too bad to me. Stubbing your toe is one of the most painful things ever. If he genuinely did it by accident then shouting out at you could just be a natural reaction. Even though it wasn't your fault, people often aren't rational and reasonable when in pain.
Also, not moderating his voice in public could mean he's just one of those people that doesn't care what others think.
However if you think he deliberately stubbed his toe to have a go at you then that's toxic. If you think he deliberately argues I'm public because he knows you hate it, then that's toxic.
How many arguments do you have? You talk as if arguing in public happens quite often but I can't think of any occasions when DH and I have argued in public.

If you are starting to become abusive back then it's time to leave. It will affect you mentally for years afterwards because you became someone you hated being. It can destroy you.
https://www.verywellmind.com/reactive-abuse-signs-impact-and-tips-to-break-the-cycle-7567483#:~:text=The%20Dynamics%20of%20Reactive%20Abuse,-If%20someone%20is&text=If%20they%20are%20unable%20to,or%20even%20assaulting%20their%20abuser.

Time to think hard about your future. Base it on the knowledge he will never really change, so your life will be like it is, or worse, until you leave or die. Do you want that life?

I would look into “reactive abuse” - you speaking to him this way isn’t coming from nowhere and it sounds like you’ve been worn down to the point of verbally snapping back. To my mind, any threat of “watch yourself because I could get physical with you” is something to walk away from. Apologising and making up for it quickly is also quite manipulative; if he was actually sorry he wouldn’t be speaking to you like that in the first place. You’re not expecting too much to be spoken to like a human and not be blamed for things that have absolutely nothing to do with you. Relationships do have their ups and downs, arguments, being annoyed with each other, but it should never venture into the realms of emotional abuse.

Why are you all shouting at each other

Yes, I’ve only had the occasional incident like this to deal with, usually when DIY is going wrong, but I’ve realised that a very firm response which demonstrates how I will not put up with that works far better than ignoring it or trying to pacify it.

Do you honestly want to live like this for the rest of your life? Would you want your daughter to live like this?