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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be put off watching anything by Neil Gaiman

88 replies

WandsOut · 10/07/2024 21:01

www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/03/exclusive-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault

Neil Gaiman has been accused of violent sexual assault by two much younger women - just vile.

Anyone else feeling let down and pissed off by this news?

OP posts:
Cantrushart · 17/07/2024 21:53

Classic beta male behaviour. Hoover up the girls who are clearly misfits with low self esteem. As long as they’re young and fawning, men like NG (rich, white, powerful, charismatic) exploit their lack of boundaries then move on with no consequences.

I don't think that 'white' has anything to do with it.

lljkk · 18/07/2024 17:56

@swimsong said Are you not even reading the replies?

You mean like these ones, yes?

So many turn out to be deeply predatory and misogynistic,

It read like it was written by a sexist pig, hardly surprising he has turned out to actually be one.

Classic beta male behaviour.

Right now I don't want to continue watching Good Omens 2 or The Sandman (I'm behind on watching them). I certainly will not read Calliope ever again, I haven't watched that episode yet and doubt I ever will.

Dervel · 12/08/2024 04:16

AyrshireTryer · 11/07/2024 11:05

Firstly you don't know me and know little about me, so perhaps wind ya neck in a little.

I am sorry to trot out the British legal system, but that is what happens in this country. Someone is accused, there is a trial, and that person is found guilty or not.
Not a new found commitment in me - just a commitment that everyone should have a fair trial. Served on Jurys three times now.
In my case I do not bring this maxim to cases only against violence to women and children. If others do that is their concern not mine.
I do not believe in trial my media - social or printed - and especially do not believe in trial by Mumsnet.

I think you are bang on with your adherence to the legal principle “innocent until proven guilty”. However there is some nuance here that is missed in this context. Presumption of innocence is crucial because in instances of getting it wrong in cases of sexual violence (which can and do include the death of the victim sometimes), would mean a loss of liberty for the accused. So absolutely it should meet the legal bar of beyond reasonable doubt to convict someone.

However nobody is advocating throwing the accused in jail without trial, and no “trial by media” as distasteful as they may be carries with them a prison sentence nor a death penalty. However given the nature of crimes such as these in how difficult they are to prosecute, as it essentially boils down to a he said/she said argument can be impossible to prove past bar of required evidence.

Consider if you will the sister to the criminal courts: the civil courts. Now in a civil trial the presumption of innocence is still there, BUT and this is crucial, the standard of proof is on the balance of probabilities. Rape and sexual assault unfortunately exists in a difficult space. It absolutely is serious enough to warrant custodial sentences, but that given that the burden of proof is so high to reflect the potential sentences that can be handed down many rapists walk scott free.

Clearly this state of affairs is untenable as this makes rapes in an overwhelming number of instances de facto legal even if de jure it is illegal. So where do we go from here? I like you find trials by media or in the court of public opinion often inaccurate, distasteful and often politically motivated.

What I propose to address it is this: we pass a law enabling victims of rape and sexual assault free legal aid to pursue the perpetrators through the civil courts. This would achieve a number of things that are currently not happening: More perpetrators would be found at the very least culpable in a legal context, with the very richly deserved loss of reputation. It would have the knock on effect of changing the cultural conversation and attitudes towards rape as more women would be believed. It might over time act as a deterrent to the more savvy and manipulative predators. We may need to tighten up regulations surrounding Non Disclosure Agreements. So in cases where it is settled out of court it couldn’t be legally enforceable in instances of alleged sexual misconduct should victims decide to disclose any details of any settlements.

I have served on a Jury myself, and it was my nightmare scenario to be faced with a rape/sexual assault trial where I found the victim to be credible and likely their accusation true, but there simply not be enough evidence to vote guilty. Thankfully I was not faced with such a case, but it did give me pause to consider how we badly need to have this most serious of crimes carry some sort of consequence, and what I posted above is the best I could come up with.

Hateam · 12/08/2024 06:07

Was that written by AI?

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 12/08/2024 10:19

lljkk · 18/07/2024 17:56

@swimsong said Are you not even reading the replies?

You mean like these ones, yes?

So many turn out to be deeply predatory and misogynistic,

It read like it was written by a sexist pig, hardly surprising he has turned out to actually be one.

Classic beta male behaviour.

Right now I don't want to continue watching Good Omens 2 or The Sandman (I'm behind on watching them). I certainly will not read Calliope ever again, I haven't watched that episode yet and doubt I ever will.

You quoted me there - I've read about the accusations and Gaiman's response, ie about the one accuser having a medical condition that causes false memories. If I completely accept what he says - that nothing illegal occurred, it was all consensual - I still believe his behaviour was wrong. So I won't be watching the rest of Good Omens or The Sandman or buying any more of his books. My choice in this matter isn't reliant on him having done something illegal.

The NDA signed by the woman who lived in a property he owned doesn't cast him in a good light either.

If anything makes it to court and I was somehow on the jury I would absolutely uphold innocent until proven guilty, but that's not the situation I'm in. The situation I'm in is do I feel comfortable reading his books or watching his shows? And the answer is no.

Dervel · 12/08/2024 15:37

Hateam · 12/08/2024 06:07

Was that written by AI?

Do you mean what I just wrote?

Lalalacrosse · 12/08/2024 15:44

I don’t much like him or his writing style. But for things like Good Omens (the book) I’m not going to stop liking them. You can like the art without liking the artist.

SprigatitoYouAndIKnow · 12/08/2024 19:04

I got the ick first when he left his family and buggered off to have his me time during covid. I thought I liked him for years. Turns out I only liked Terry Pratchett and the greatness of good omens was likely predominantly not down to Gaiman. I did watch the second series, as 1 was so like the book, and hated it. It seemed almost entirely filler and being smug that it was misdirecting us plebs watching.

The internet suggests that he got the actor playing Anansi written out if American Gods and then being so awkward it got cancelled before the final series.

DadJoke · 12/08/2024 19:14

Absolute nonsense that we need the same standard of proof to deprive someone of their liberty, and have an opinion about the truth of allegations. He's admitted to some vile stuff, and I believe the other women who have come forward.

He's a great disappointment to very many people, and I don't want any of my money going in his direction.

Dervel · 12/08/2024 19:29

DadJoke · 12/08/2024 19:14

Absolute nonsense that we need the same standard of proof to deprive someone of their liberty, and have an opinion about the truth of allegations. He's admitted to some vile stuff, and I believe the other women who have come forward.

He's a great disappointment to very many people, and I don't want any of my money going in his direction.

Okay not quite the point I was making,
but otherwise agree with everything you said.

WandsOut · 21/08/2024 08:20

archive.ph/40g42

Another three women have accused Gaiman of sexually abusing them.

His response?
"The autism made me do it."

No Neil, your penis and your brain and your body and entitlement made you do it.

“He said to me, ‘I’m a very wealthy man, and I’m used to getting what I want,’” Claire recounted on the podcast.
Sometime later, Claire said she sent Gaiman a letter expressing her feelings about her experience. “His response caught me totally off guard,” she said of when they spoke on the phone following the letter. His apology felt so genuine. He told me he had no idea, and he wished I had told him sooner. He said he was glad that I told him so he could learn.” But Claire added that on the call, Gaiman claimed she kissed him first and blamed his autism diagnosis for not properly picking up her body language and queues."

Hugely HUGELY offensive.

OP posts:
CharlotteRumpling · 21/08/2024 18:52

Autism now. I am so sick of these predatory men.

Oldseagull · 22/08/2024 00:42

Ffs.

Autism runs in a our family (DF, DH, DS)

Funnily enough, somehow managed not to sexually assault anyone.

It's so infuriating that cretins like this even think it is an excuse, shows they know fuck all about autism.

Not being able to pick up on non verbal cues does not = assaulting women.

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