To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

@Skycrawler

I agree and it certainly wasn't peachy for the working classes in that time. They were also exploited.

I think whataboutery is perfectly valid in these discussions

Did the slave markets always exist or were they a response to demand? I mean did it start as whites doing raids from the sea and then develop into trade, the costal groups going to the interior to catch slaves, rather then be themselves taken?

The Irish have been involved in colonisation from the days of Niall of The Nine Hostages slave taking (Hello, St Patrick!), colonisation of parts of Great Britain & northern France (hence the DNA) and all the way up to Irish involvement in the British Empire which included being slave owners too.

And the Spanish Empire expansion pre-British Empire.

The Irish and Scottish expanded the British Empire further than the English did, especially in India and the American colonies.

Very, very seldom will you find a European people with zero history of colonisation and so on. It is remarkably Europe wide.

Given that other posters have mentioned Irish taking slaves, Romans taking slaves, vikings and the Muslim empire taking slaves, I suspect that tribes, peoples and groups in Africa were indulging in slavery long before any European involvement.

Regarding the comment that legislation in former colonies had been imposed by the colonisers, well. I recall the discussion several years ago about Uganda having a law against homosexuality as being one the "bad" British had drawn up - well Uganda has been independent since at least the 1960s. I know if I had been in any of the many governments in a newly independent former colony, I'd want to look at all the laws the former colonial oppressors had forced on me.

If you knew anything about post colonial Uganda you would understand why that hasn't been possible. That's what happens when colonial oppressors up leave nations unstable and indebted.

I suppose compared to the native American population - as people from Africa already had been exposed to microbes and diseases that wiped out swathes of the indigenous peoples of the Americas - people from Africa were stronger and able to work more (before they died. Many places people were just worked in to the ground as it was cheaper to ship over fresh supplies than to look after your fellow human beings in a decent way).

They were also better acclimatised to work hard in the heat than say indentured workers from northern Europe.

But equally, yes, the seemingly limitless supply of slaves from central Africa (a loosely applied term just now) and the fact they were already rounded up and clear to be shipped off was a very important factor.

The truly horrible thing to consider is how easy we dismiss the suffering of other people if we feel we can justify it.
I do see what OP means when referring to «White behaviour» as the last massive empires the last 500 years have been mainly European empires with White men excelling in inflicting atrocities on others in the pursuit of financial gain.
Witness the havoc in Sudan now; still an echo from colonial times even if there are New powerstructures at play now.

It isn’t White behaviour though, as such, as others have pointed out more eloquently. It is greed and opportunity. And then belief systems implemented to justify the actions.
But the consequences of these belief systems have for the last centuries been felt most keenly by people with Brown or Black skin, and that has to be acknowledged when we discuss our histories.

History was a «gentleman’s» subject for a long while, who investigated whatever they were interested in and published what they felt was important, which was stuff about men from Europe, largely. Luckily now it is a lot more diverse, but the sort of mainstream published history is still a lot about European History from a European/Western perspective. I’m glad that’s being challenged.

nominally, people of the world have officially decided that enslaving and colonising your fellow brothers and sisters is a "bad thing". but in reality, that has never stopped, right? anyone who lives in a "rich" country has the blood and tears of the poor on their hands, and that's regardless of skin colour.

Its only so so recent in historical terms that humans generally have decided that that enslaving your fellow man and taking their stuff is a bad thing.

And that mindset exists in theory only. There are more slaves now than at any point in history but because they're mining our raw materials, growing our food and making our consumer items we turn a blind eye to it.

The irony of speaking out against historic oppression on a smartphone while dressed in brand sportswear doesn't seem to register for many.

Sorry, why not?

Have you heard of the Barbary pirates, used to raid the West of England etc

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Barbary-Pirates-English-Slaves/

African slave trading has a very long history tied up with inter tribal warfare. To a certain extent geography determined where the ports were located - eg the Niger delta was a convenient location as you could use the river to head into the interior and the lagoons to travel up and down the coast without having to head out to sea. Ports on the west African coast were the easiest way to trade with the Mediterranean due to the difficulties in crossing the Sahara although until the C17th it was largely a seasonal trade dependent on wind direction. European traders didn't head into Africa to capture slaves they relied on the local chiefs and traders to supply them. Slave trading was seen as triply beneficial to the local chiefs as they could use it to dispose of their rivals (most of the early slaves were prisoners of war) and make money from both the sale of slaves and customs levies on the imported goods which they were exchanged for. Finally they could also buy guns etc which meant that they were better armed than their rivals inland. Conversely the European traders needed to stay on the right side of the local chiefs or they would find the ports in their territories closed to them - which happened periodically meaning that the offending trader would need to move along the coast to find someone else to do business with.

West African/European trade post the Roman Empire came to be dominated by Spain and Portugal and after the "discovery" of the Americas it was the Portuguese who first saw the commercial advantages of buying slaves in West Africa and selling them in the new colonies which were short of labour. As other European nations joined them they enhanced the extant infrastructure helping local rulers build and man huge forts and slave castles along the West African coast. British naval dominance and developing maritime and military technology meant that the British scaled this up to the truly horrific levels of the triangular trade.

Your using a stereotypical term to describe individuals. It's racist and discriminatory.

Because they didn’t have their own education system and imported it directly from England (or wherever). In Japan and China, there isn’t this problem so much because there was already an education system in place (and well Japan was technically a coloniser lol) and there’s plenty of written material culture and relevant authors to study.

Some of these countries did not have a written language even … what can you even expect? Or in the MENA where religious education was a norm, secular education must be imported from abroad.

We actually live in quite a diverse country. There are a range of ethnicities and cultures in the country and our classrooms

This is a recent phenomenon. And unlike American blacks, did not these families choose to be part of British culture? They should learn and respect the culture that they have chosen to live in.

These children deserve to see themselves in the syllabus and their learning

Why?

And all children benefit from hearing a range of voices and perspectives

Yes, this is nice but it should come from a foundation of English language and culture, no? Otherwise what is the point?

There's no such thing as "black or white behaviour" people don't behave a certain way because of the colour of their skin. I'm sorry OP but your openly racist and you just can't see it staring you in the face.

You can't use a stereotypical term to describe some people and then "add the term "some but not all" to excuse the racism... the second you said white behaviour you were racist. The second you said black behaviour and Asian behaviour you were racist.... the colour of peoples skin has nothing to do with their actions or behaviour.

I would suggest doing do some equality and diversity training, I did it in college and I think it should be taught in schools.

By the way the "what aboutery" your talking about is just people providing evidence, that the colonial behaviour your talking about is not "white behaviour"

That's a hell of an imperialist mindset you've got there. First of all, people have always shared knowledge and taught their children, even if it didn't look how we thought it should. And secondly, "imported"? More like we imposed it upon them. And secular? Do you know a single thing about the curriculum we did in fact export to the colonies? Dear me,

That's a hell of an imperialist mindset you've got there

I am not even from here.

First of all, people have always shared knowledge and taught their children, even if it didn't look how we thought it should

yeah Afghanistan does this. Looks great huh? (I’m sure you’ll say ‘but muh Soviets and Americans’)

And secondly, "imported"? More like we imposed it upon them

I am sure some locals valued and wanted education instead of … nothing but religious brainwashing but ok.

And secular? Do you know a single thing about the curriculum we did in fact export to the colonies

I did in fact use to live in a former British colony for a time. There were only religious tutors for sons of the elite. So they went and imported British education and eventually expanded to all children, male and female.

A good thing imo but u may disagree

It is very humbling and respectful that you have admitted to understanding the economic woes of Haiti with respect to France. It is not your fault. I believe that what the OP is alluding to is how few people he genuinely understand the connections between white majority countries in Europe and their impact on the colonised countries (do correct me @OP if I am incorrectly understanding your questions) . The way that so many posters are venting their anger, reflects the OPs question. Okay, maybe the OP wasn't the best framed or worded, but many have understood what the OP meant. And no, I am not threatened by the question.

In the not too distant past history was taught in a very British centric way in British schools etc.
In the 1930s everyone was still dressing up and celebrating Empire Day and waving flags.
The lyrics of "Land of Hope and Glory" are very suspect. "Wider yet and wider shall thy bounds be set, God who made you mighty, make you mightier yet".
Things have changed a lot though. People have watched programmes like "Roots". If the Slave Trade and the British Empire are taught now the truth of it doesn't tend to be avoided as it was. Class barriers have broken down to a great extent and there is less deference.
I agree that its important that this period of history and the legacy it has left are taught.
I still think that its very problematic and possibly racist to use the term "White behaviour". It implies that there is almost a genetic disposition linked to skin colour to behave in an oppressive and arrogant way.
There is a great range of opinion and personality among English people as there is among people of any nationality. Anything that says "The English are like this" "The Irish are like that" , "Africans are *" " Americans are **" is just steretyping and where racism starts.

@coastalhawk

An imperialist mindset doesn't belong to one particular nationality. It matters not where you are from.
Are upu about to argue that our interventions I'm Afghanistan were for the best? I'm not going to go there.
There was no "religious brainwashing" in many countries until we imported Christianity.
Religious tutors? The entire curriculum is Christian centric in a great many places. As it was here during the time period in which we were imposing it upon the world.

The reality is that those with the power tend to use it the exert authority over others, and through the latter half of the second millennium the power holders were Europeans so they used it to the negative consequences of others BUT throughout history there have been other "bad guys" too, it's just being British we learn history from a British perspective. I can assure you that in schools they are taught all the bad bits!

There's a lot of reading around the subject of empire, specifically the British Empire, for any one who is interested. I enjoyed Niall Ferguson's Empire. He's a Scot and an economic history prof at Harvard, who writes fluently and accessibly about the Empire. I think he's quite clear sighted about the good and the bad.

If you are in Brittany on holiday, I would recommend the Museum of the French East India Company in Lorient, which was the home port for the French East India fleet, if only to reassure yourselves that it really wasn't only England that has a colonial history.

And, as I posted last night, I firmly believe that most of the attraction for refugees and migrants is language, and English is the modern world language. It's a really easy language to get by in while you don't speak it fluently. For a final point, English civil law is the gold standard for equity and certainty, because it is based on 800 years of precedent. Magna Carta, habeus corpus are the foundation stones of legal equity and fair treatment.

I think World History should be taught from an early age. Lots of it. That will teach kids that no one 'race' is more or less moral than another. We're all human.