To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

Anyway got to go to bed. It's been interesting!

This is an interesting one and it's actually a huge focus in education, to try overcome our very 'whitewashed' curriculum. It's not just in history that the current curriculum focuses on history from a British perspective but as an example white authors dominate school reading lists and these books feature white largely white characters.

No matter what someone says about intention, the curriculum does focus on British history from a British perspective. It is up to teachers to decide of and how to teach the negative aspects of the British empire and it's legacy. It is also not something that is ancient history, the Windrush scandal was in 2018.

I have taught for 15 years and in that time there has been a marked shift in teaching of history from the British perspective to the negative impact on the colonised. For instance when I stared teaching Christopher Columbus and his 'discovery' of America was featured in nearly every KS1 curriculum. It's only in recent years that teachers have introduced an alternative perspective and started teaching Pocahontas as well.

I mentioned it because the post was about King Leopold and Belgium.

What do you mean by "ethnic"?

As a white person I find our history shameful, namely slave trading and colonisation. I think it's something we collectively find hard to own and as a response white people defend from that feeling.

I just saw a dreadful BBC show called "villages by the sea" and there was an old white git defending the naming and burial of a 'little black boy called Sambo" in a small village in Suffolk. The archeologist tried to say how problematic the name was and the old white git just bounced it back by saying "how much respect there was at the way he'd been buried". It was shocking the way he gaslit the archeologist. I felt the show needed a trigger warning

People of color I changed it once already because it's always on my mind, am I being racist? Is this offensive? But no one ever thinks that when they are brandishing around the word white. Given you've brought it up, I'm hoping its not offensive.

This. I really don't think you can say that skin colour doesn't matter if you are white. It just doesn't matter for you.

It is far too simplistic to break it down into white and non-white behaviour. I would argue history is far more about class than race. It is written by those who hold power (the rich). Those who are in power/hold wealth will always seek to become more rich and powerful at the expense of those who do not hold power and wealth.

The UK has seen plenty of conquest and invasion. Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Normans. Hell, even the Normas invaded France from Scandinavia.

When you look at the ancient civilisations, such as Egypt in particular, the ethnicity of the ruling class changed through conquest and invasion.

Parts of Europe continued to be under the rule of the Moors until the time when European exploration and colonisation began. Was that 'white' or 'non-white' behaviour then when the Santa Maria toddled off across the Atlantic?

In a few hundred years time all of our ancestors will be learning about how we all benefited off the exploitation of those making clothes for temu and shein etc. The trafficked workers doing our nails, eyebrows and buzz cuts. The farmers not being paid fairly for their crops and they will wonder how we could be so inhumane.

Most of us do feel that shame though but it's just not white history. It's colonial history and defending it being called "white history" rather than what it was which is colonial history, is allowing reverse racism.

"Oh white people they were the enslavers" well no we actually were not. Colonials were. Most of our ancestors worked in the poor house themselves, my own grandad was born into one. They certainly wernt enslavers!

Oh bore off.

But unfortunately it isn't taught or acknowledged nearly enough. No need to apologise, but a definite need for more to understand.

Up till very recently I've only met a handful of people under the age of 60 who are aware of my particular Commonwealth heritage and the experiences and troubles that shaped mine and my families' lives.

A colleague of mine who was from another Commonwealth country was incredibly hurt and incredulous when a member of HR, (British, who would now be in their forties), sitting incredibly close to them asked another loudly: "Was X country part of the Commonwealth?" These are facts that should be known because it is linked to our nation's history. Someone working in HR with hiring powers especially should be aware.

If people at all levels - schools, university, workplaces - actually were fully taught, knew and acknowledged our nation's colonial history objectively they would be dumbfounded, as was I when I started doing my own research at the age of 18.

Everyone has benefited in someway from the actions of this nation's past (you and me included). The fact that we are are collectively a wealthy nation is thanks in part to colonialism and one that should be never forgotten.

There were definitely white slaves in our recent history, but their experiences were different from those of black slaves. White slaves were generally allowed to have their own families and choose their partners. Even though life was still very hard—my great-grandfather worked six days a week breaking his back gardening for land owning gentry—we can’t ignore the racial aspect. The treatment of black slaves was particularly brutal and dehumanizing; they were often regarded and treated as less than human.

I understand all your points and I thankyou for them. I now understand you mean the history of the common wealth, which nations are in it and how they got there and your absolutely right, I did history and that wasn't delved into.

I know we've benefited greatly over the years but that only shames me more.... I'd rather live in a poorer country and than live from blood stained wealth. Stolen jewels and all the rest of the despicable things this country has done and still was doing until fairly recently.

There are many successful countries who didn't enslave people and strip wealth to get rich. I'm pretty sure we could have gotten rich some otherway and honestly if the option was in my hand to be rich from the blood of others or risk being a poorer country, I know what I would choose.

Off you pop then! What’s stopping you?

also which countries have gotten rich without hurting others?

I don't disagree, I don't deny racism was the result of slavery but it was not the reason for it.

The reason was rich colonisers who stirred up racial hatred on a minority group, to allow them to use them as commodities to be bought and sold to get them rich.

They are responsible for racism. This isn't about white slaves for me. We're all still slaves to capitalism as far as I'm concerned. We have to pay to eat, pay to drink.

Racism is rife absolutely rife and it's only getting worse because for some reason, accross the world racial unrest is again being stirred by people in power in multiple countries.

@peanutbuttertoasty Haha Glad you said what I was thinking, utter drivel. I for one have no regrets or shame.

Life before I was born was not my fault end of, its pathetic when people claim they feel shame. Next thing you'll be in a newborn ward in hospital telling all the newborn white kids they should be ashamed and will live in sin.

If you feel no shame you learn no lessons.... no it wasn't our fault but it is our responsibility to ensure it never happens again.

Accepting and understanding historys wrongs and acknowledging the mistakes of others does not mean that I need to feel personal shame or take responsibility for it. Don't be so pathetic.

Your litterally living from the spoils of it... if we feel no guilt about that the history stops being taught and the cycle begins again. I don't care what names you call me, that says more about you than me, as if your first statement didn't tell us enough....

And no one is asking you to feel "personal shame" only regret that you come from an country where the leadership historically invaded enslaved and pillaged half the world's wealth.

You can say that about every country in the world from various points in history. You can also reverse that and say that the whole world has benefited from it too.

It powered the industrial revolution and numerous other inventions and discoveries' that have benefited all mankind, saving millions more than the slave trade took away.

No, his racism did. Plenty of available sources with quotes of him being openly racist.

@Mummy2024 are you also going to tell the every muslim that they also should feel shame for the Arab muslim slave trade from africa?

If you feel so ashamed then please do us all a favour and bore off to some other country. There are plenty of other people willing to take your place 😊

I don't disagree with what you're saying either, but I think it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. It's easier to enslave or mistreat an entire race of people when you "other" them. Before rich white colonisers found black people across the Atlantic, they exploited poor white people. However, Britain got wealthy largely because of its lucrative slave trade, and if you're white and outside the prison, hospital and welfare system, it's probably fair to say you're a beneficiary of that.