To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

If you "studied" history to 13, then it's fairly likely you don't know very much about it. I'm sorry. My knowledge is patchy and I got an A at A level in history in 1974. English from 1482 to 1603 and European from Ferdinand and Isabella
to the big Catholic Wars. After O level history from 1815-1914. And I still read about history.

By white people you mean rich white people.

There was a huge amount of servitude and by any other name slavery in this country.
This really started to change with unionisation and the murder of millions during ww1.

My recent ancestors had terrible existences.

However the library nearest me was built by a white philanthropic man who helped millions of poor get educated.

Many good things in this country were made possible by the rich white men atoning for the sins of their ancestors.

Whilst half the world is at war internally I think we should stop naval gazing and blaming us for the past.
Solve current world problems before you descecrate the past.

There are many predominantly white countries which haven't partaken in colonisation or oppression. Some, like Ireland, have been victims of colonisation.

It's part of British history, yes. It was carried out by the white, ruling class.

Yes but let's face it, Britain took far more of it, India, Australia, America at one point and many many more. No idea how we even actually managed it and even now we've still managed to cling on in some small way, in some places.

How they thought they could run the whole world from London is beyond me! They learned the hardway that you can't

In anycase it's completely wrong and had they not force ably taken land and made people slaves who knows where we would be at now, probably not facing down threats in multiple directions with barely any friends only people who hate us and think slavery when the word Britain is even mentioned. Mud sticks, what you did to fix it none really cares.

Do you honestly not remember hearing about the Norman Conquest or the Roman invasion of Britain, like literally, nothing at all? What did you learn about in history lessons?

And following the Monmouth rebellion in 1685 judge Jefferies (yes that one) and his mates "Barbadosed" thousands of white West country men.

To be fair, our Vikings and Roman's history was very much longboats and shields. It was hardly in depth. Same goes for slavery and the colonies.
Which is why people really need to keep educating themselves beyond a year 9 history lesson lest they grow up thinking "yeah slavery was bad, but the Arabs did it to" is bringing mature debate to the table.

I mean - the Irish weren't always kind to the English either, if you want to go back a little farther.

That's kind of the point, it's silly to try and put moral weight on this kind of history. And to a large extent, even on individuals, because the experiences of people in the past were just so different. People were very hard, and while there could be great humanity too, I think most of us today really struggle to get into the kind of mindset that people had. Death and suffering were so much more present in everyone's life.

Again, like I said, acknowledging that white people did something isn't saying they all did it or they are the only ones who ever did it.

Yes, exactly

Well it kind of is, isn't it. It's a meaningless generalisation.

The point is it's meaningless.

You might as well say redheaded people, or people with long toes, did something.

You are using a category that is not relevant. ANn worse, perpetuates stupid racial stereotypes.

I would say both were reasons; taking resources wasn't seen as wrong to do and exacerbated because there was a pervasive narrative of non-white peoples - and native Irish and Scottish people too - of being inferior, uncivilised, subhuman etc. English Literature - particularly from the last few centuries up to the mid twentieth century - is peppered with evidence of this; think the works of Charles Dickens, Wilkie Collins, Enid Blyton, Agatha Christie, Arthur Conan Doyle; think also of numerous quotes and beliefs from Churchill to Callaghan etc.

Of course the British Empire, colonialism and the slave trade are part of British history and that needs to be accepted. I think we do need to acknowledge the atrocities that took place, how they were justified and the legacy of it all. I don't think calling it "white behaviour" is the same thing.

To be fair the British didn't 'make people slaves' - the British slave traders mostly bought the slaves from rich West African slave owners.

And or course, St Patrick, patron saint of Ireland is believed to have been a Scottish man who was kidnapped by Irish pirates, taken to Ireland and was a slave there for years. Although, his parents were Romans and part of the colonizing power of Rome, so actually he was a victim of oppression but the son of oppressors.... it"s almost as if history isn't just a drawn out version of goodies v baddies.

And the theft of sovereign English land of aquitaine which came to be part of England when Eleanor of Awe married Henry II in 1152 and was invaded by the French
How come no one has mentioned Leopold king of Belgium who "owned" the Congo and used to hunt the native population in the Victorian age.

But then we have Liberia, set up by freed American slaves, who appropriated the land and held political power, excluding the native population from.citizenship

Then we have Quig dynasty in China in the 1750s and their genocide of the Dzungar.

Violence, greed, imperialism and being bastards isn't just a white issue, it's a human issue

You can say that about literally any categorization. British history - do you think that means every single British person had the same experiences? Or do you exercise some common sense and acknowledge that it is part of British history and not the singular entirety of it.

Leopold has been mentioned by a previous poster

I didn't say the experience of every single British person did I. It is however the history of the country. Everyone will have experienced colonisation differently. From the poor with rickets living in squalor to the rich plantation owners.

@Mummy2024. we've done better than you suggest. The world wants to live in their version of the USA, speak English and rely on the fairness of common law (just look at the refugees). All created in England, over an 800 year span, before I mention freedom of thought and creative expression, and solid scientific method. Shared credit with France, Italy, Germany and Scandinavian countries, but Africa? Seriously?

Erm ..do you recall a little thing called the British Empire?

Erm yes I do, sorry not sure of your point though?

No one is arguing that the history isnt important though.... we're arguing that it isn't because we are white that it happened and that it isn't taught from our point of view.

I mean what do you even mean by that? No one sat in history and said "well yeah we enslaved people but there were positives too" Not once in any of my lessons were we taught that it was OK to be a colonial country and enslave people.

I have an Indian friend, who's moved to Britain acctually. His impression of Britain is the colonials "who came pillaged and decimated India then turned around and left again with all the money" what bothered me most is I knew he was absolutely right! I told him so aswell. He also pointed out that we're still doing it now (Iraq) for instance and again I couldn't disagree. He knows though that it's governments and people in power who do this stuff, not your average friendly Brit like me.

I guess another way to look at it is what's done is done. Using the example of Britain, as this site is predominantly used by British users, the least we can do as a nation is learn from our history and acknowledge it.

What most people of Commonwealth heritage now want is their history to be understood and acknowledged instead of apologies and reparations.

Just being seen and spoken of to the next generation factually and clearly would go a long way.