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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To worry that this is a major threat to our democracy?

110 replies

Worrydon · 09/07/2024 14:23

https://themuslimvote.co.uk/.

Ever since learning about the targeted campaign of threats and harassment against MP Jess Phillips, it has become clear that those harassing her, along with other similar independent MPs are being pushed into power by sectarian politics.

many of these independent MPs have gotten in purely off the back of being pro-Gaza, despite not offering any solutions to local issues. Our MPs should represent local and national interests, not exclusively one foreign agenda piece.

This website (the Muslim Vote) encourages people to put in their post code, and it then tells you who to vote for based entirely off their stance on Gaza.

This appears to be allowing religion and sectarianism to corrupt our democracy, and I worry that not enough attention is being paid to this threat.

The Muslim Vote - We are Pro-Democracy and Anti-Genocide

Muslims and all people who stand for justice agree that the current political class does not represent us. Peacefully, politically, and persistently we will vote them out.

https://themuslimvote.co.uk

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 09/07/2024 20:00

@TooBigForMyBoots ,

‘Single Issue voters are everywhere. If they return enough single issue candidates, that is a message to the government of the day which they can choose to address or ignore.’

Is that where you are with Reform as well?

Ultimately these single issue candidates are just as racist (if not more so).

Do you think they will serve their Jewish constituents well?

Mummy2024 · 09/07/2024 20:14

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:53

No not really, you can and should be able to campaign for whatever law changes you want. I mean there are plenty of laws people want changed, many feminists want the repeal of the GRC. It’s a democratic right to campaign for changes to law.

I just don’t like that particular one and think anyone who wants to change it is doing so for not great reasons.

I do understand why some may have felt the independent candidates backed by muslim vote were the only ones reflecting back on an issue they felt extremely concerned about though. As I said people can vote for whoever/whatever they like and the rest of us are free to criticise.

I think there's an exception to be made when democratic freedom and the very fabric of democracy is at stake though.

In religion most people are devout, if someone they consider a messenger of God tells them they must vote a certain way or go to hell, they have taken away democratic freedom and therefore take away democracy as a whole.

Floorbard · 09/07/2024 20:14

I voted for someone who is ‘pro Gaza’ because I think that genocide is bad. I am not religious.

HappierTimesAhead · 09/07/2024 20:18

Floorbard · 09/07/2024 20:14

I voted for someone who is ‘pro Gaza’ because I think that genocide is bad. I am not religious.

I think this is a really important point. The horror of what is going in Gaza is a defining moment in world history and for humanity. Lots of people want to use their vote to highlight that and it has nothing to do with religion.

Grannywithnoplanny · 09/07/2024 20:23

HappierTimesAhead · 09/07/2024 20:18

I think this is a really important point. The horror of what is going in Gaza is a defining moment in world history and for humanity. Lots of people want to use their vote to highlight that and it has nothing to do with religion.

Agreed. This is not about religion, it's about the fact that nobody has done enough to address the fact that genocide that is currently going on. Horrific.

Hatfullofwillow · 09/07/2024 20:25

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 18:55

Yes but we don’t have actual priests that normal people visit x number of times a week legally telling them how to actually vote. It is leveraging a personal spiritual relationship between priest and congregation for political means and allowing religious authorities to press gang captive audiences into voting the “correct” way. It’s sinister that anyone thinks that should be removed.

That's an Interesting point and something I wasn't aware of.

Hatfullofwillow · 09/07/2024 20:29

Danceinthenight · 09/07/2024 18:55

Only the indigenously British should be allowed to vote

So just the Welsh then.

DuskyBlueDepartingLight · 09/07/2024 21:45

Zionism has been misrepresented on this thread.

Here's a brief explanation:

'Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel. The vast majority of Jews around the world feel a connection or kinship with Israel, whether or not they explicitly identify as Zionists, and regardless of their opinions on the policies of the Israeli government.

While there has been a continuous Jewish presence in the land of Israel over the millennia, the yearning to return to Zion, the biblical term for both the land of Israel and Jerusalem, has been a cornerstone of Jewish communal life since the Romans violently colonized the land, sending Jews into exile two thousand years ago. An earlier exile by the Babylonians produced perhaps the most well-known lamentation “By the rivers of Babylon, there we wept as we remembered Zion.” That connection between Jews and the land, and the hope for repatriation, is deeply embedded in Jewish prayer, ritual, literature and culture.

What is known as modern Zionism emerged in the mid-19th century in tandem with the rise of the nation-state and widespread national liberation movements across Europe. In the case of the Jews, it was also in response to a long history of intense anti-Jewish hatred, persecution, and discrimination in countries and societies across the world where Jews lived, including in Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa. Its advocates believed that a modern Jewish state would provide Jews with a safe haven from the bigotry and endangerment they suffered perennially as a minority culture among non-Jewish majority cultures, and ensure that Jews have the same right to nationhood and self-determination as any other people, along with the same protections that are typically afforded to other nations. Zionism was also a cultural and national renaissance movement which sought to enable the Jewish people to revive their language, Hebrew, and reestablish self-determination over their traditions, culture, religion and education.

In the late 1800s, the “father” of modern Zionism, Austrian journalist Theodor Herzl, consolidated various strands of Zionist thought into an organized political movement, advocating for international recognition of an independent and sovereign Jewish state in the land of Israel.

Today, with a Jewish sovereign state a reality, Zionists believe in and support the right of the democratic State of Israel to exist as a Jewish homeland. Israel is the only Jewish state in the world. Being a Zionist is distinct from supporting the policies of the government of Israel.

Zionism is a big tent movement that includes those across the spectrum from progressives, moderates and conservatives and those who are apolitical. There are Zionists who are critical of Israeli policies, just as there are Zionists who rarely voice disagreement with the Israeli government. There are diverse views among Zionists about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, about how to promote peace, whether to support a two-state solution, and about approaches to Israeli settlements. Being critical of Israeli policies is no more anti-Zionist than being critical of American policies is anti-American.

Zionism does not preclude support for Palestinian self-determination and statehood. For some Zionists, support for a two-state solution is the realization of self-determination for Jews and Palestinians alike.

There are also millions of non-Jews who consider themselves Zionists and supporters of the Jewish state, who are motivated by factors including religion, history, security or politics.'

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism

You are being redirected...

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/07/2024 00:09

Is that where you are with Reform as well.

Yes @Newbutoldfather.

Wgdici52828 · 10/07/2024 10:40

TeenagersAngst · 09/07/2024 18:52

There's a reason why we have separation of Church and State. Religion has no place in politics.

We don’t have separation of church and state to any degree. The King is our head of state and the supreme governor of the Church of England. We have a constitutionally established state religion. There are 26 bishops in the House of Lords. Sittings in both Houses of Parliament commence with Christian prayers.

I don’t agree with any of this; separation of church and state would be a good thing.

It is a nonsense to suggest that it somehow threatens democracy for people to vote in line with their religious beliefs, regardless of what their religion is. People can vote for any candidate they like based on whatever reasoning they like. That is the literal essence of democracy.

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