To worry that this is a major threat to our democracy?

[Worrydon]

https://themuslimvote.co.uk/.

Ever since learning about the targeted campaign of threats and harassment against MP Jess Phillips, it has become clear that those harassing her, along with other similar independent MPs are being pushed into power by sectarian politics.

many of these independent MPs have gotten in purely off the back of being pro-Gaza, despite not offering any solutions to local issues. Our MPs should represent local and national interests, not exclusively one foreign agenda piece.

This website (the Muslim Vote) encourages people to put in their post code, and it then tells you who to vote for based entirely off their stance on Gaza.

This appears to be allowing religion and sectarianism to corrupt our democracy, and I worry that not enough attention is being paid to this threat.

Next time don’t bother rephrasing, it really didn’t help you much.

Which part of the Representation of the People Act covers clergy preaching politics?

It is the flip side to Reform.

Religious ghettos in a (broadly) secular and tolerant country are unhealthy. And if they aren’t abiding by our democratic methods and principles, it becomes quite dangerous.

Anyone can vote for whomever they want for whatever reason, but that vote should be free, not coerced by the community or a religious leader.

It was terrible to see Jess Phillips heckled rather than congratulated.

It is democracy.

Democracy is desirable but by it's nature it doesn't always give you what you want.

There was also a website 'Get the Tories out' where you could put in your postcode and find out who to vote for to make sure the Tory candidate didn't get elected in your constituency.

YABVVU because single-issue groups will always exist with the intention of influencing government. In fact, that is democracy.

How do you not get it?

I'm appalled, of course, by the treatment that Jess Phillips and others suffered at the hands of these men, and they were mainly men

In the longer run, I'm more sanguine. When independent s start getting bogged down by local issues, which they will, I think their stance on Gaza or brexit, will cut much less ice..

the one independent group I would like to see prosper are the Greens. They have a universal and urgent message. And I hope it continues to resonate in this country.

that's not to say I'm not deeply moved by the situation in Gaza. of course I am, it would take a much harder heart than mine not to be. But what the UK parliament thinks about that situation isn't going to influence it in any way. We should decry it, of course, but we shouldn't think we can influence it.

I don't think the same is true of global warming. Every little bit helps, and if a western government can find a way to reduce carbon emissions without bankrupting itself, I think that will resonate.

as to reform, I'm well and truly sick of the debate about Brexit. It's happened, I may wish it hadnt, but it has. So let's not rehash those years of debate and division, and get on with making the best of a bad deal. Hearing that "well it wasn't done properly, if it had ...".what? Sunny Uplands? It reminds me so much of the shit I heard from the UK communists in the 70s telling me communism hadn't really failed "it just hasn't been done properly" .

Doesn't sound very democratic

Which part of the Representation of the People Act covers clergy preaching politics?

I think there is something in it about not placing "undue spiritual pressure" or something.

And it is absolutely wonderful that people like you don't get to decide how democracy works in our country 🙌

The spiritual injury bit is specifically about coercing with spiritual threats so yeah. Repealing that would logically mean it would allow priests to just that.

https://lawandreligionuk.com/2024/05/08/spiritual-influence-and-elections-an-update/

that may help.

It’s basically never used but that doesn’t mean it won’t become important at some point. And if it’s not a big deal why bother writing about it in your manifesto? Theres a reason it’s included.

I just check my postcode and it said vote lib dem, which I did so on my sample of one it's not exactly radical.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/section/114A

It’s on the muslim vote page, it’s basically a manifesto. I know they aren’t a political party more a pressure group.

Well if it was more than a website informing people who didn't vote for a ceasefire and it was coercing people into voting to remove democratic freedoms, then yes it shouldn't be live.

However though, surely it should have been taken down based on the current laws in place to protect democracy if this were the case?

I don't like the idea of people voting on religious lines but on this specific issue the situation in Palestine was largely caused by the Christian Zionist movement who had a faith-based conviction that to return the Jews to their ancestral holy land was what God wanted.

That movement gained influence before WWII and afterwards they had their chance to put the theory into practice. The decision to set up a state of Israel with support from the Western nations was based on a good intentions and sentiment. The inconvenient fact that there were Arabic people already living there who felt that the same land belonged to them was largely ignored. If God wills it, then everyone will get along, right?

Now a different faith-based group are using a democratic process to advocate for the descendants of those same Arabic people. I have mixed feelings about this, I think it's a legitimate stance but I also think it's a bit shit if you happen to live in the area where an independent MP has been elected because they may not care at all about their constituents. If my local Lib Dem MP ignores me when I ask for their assistance, then I will write to the office of Ed Davey. That option isn't available if your MP is a one-man band.

And the intimidation towards opposing candidates that Jess Phillips and Shabana Mahmood have disclosed should be stamped right out. We've all had a belly full of people who think they can shout down others because God is on their side.

Thank you. Do you know if it has been tested in court? It's just that none of the fine Christian people who voted Brexit because it was what god wanted reported their pastor.

Exactly this.

I find Reform, with Farage's blatant support of Putin, way more threatening to our way of life.

I believe it is a threat because if you look at these independent MPs manifestos, they mentioned nothing except Gaza.

This means that if you are a non-Muslim living in a Muslim majority area, or a Muslim that has concerns for local life beyond just caring about Gaza, you will not have an MP to advocate for you. And this is because this web-site has guilt tripped people into voting for one particular cause, based on their religion.

And it is guilt-tripping, the website accuses some Muslims of voting for Labour and therefore preventing more Muslim independent MPs from winning seats.

Some of the things I've seen on the tv are disgusting though. The news was following Jewish illegal settlers chasing aid trucks attacking the driver and destroying the aid... the police were there and did absolutely nothing to stop it. They were chanting stop the aid stop the aid.

I really feel there's a genocidal intent there not just from government figures either and we are supporting that?

It's sickening honestly i can't get behind that. The ultimate argument needs to be resolved and without more blood shed by consessions on both sides.

Also worth bearing in mind that these some of these independent MPs have expressed some pretty foul views.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/07/07/the-muslim-vote-sectarian-insurgency-gaza-shocked-britain/

I think encouraging people to vote a certain way according to your belief system is absolutely fine . Harrassing and intimidating people who do not share your beliefs is absolutely not ok .

No not really, you can and should be able to campaign for whatever law changes you want. I mean there are plenty of laws people want changed, many feminists want the repeal of the GRC. It’s a democratic right to campaign for changes to law.

I just don’t like that particular one and think anyone who wants to change it is doing so for not great reasons.

I do understand why some may have felt the independent candidates backed by muslim vote were the only ones reflecting back on an issue they felt extremely concerned about though. As I said people can vote for whoever/whatever they like and the rest of us are free to criticise.

That's where I am as well.

Single Issue voters are everywhere. If they return enough single issue candidates, that is a message to the government of the day which they can choose to address or ignore.

Intimidation and threats are a different matter. The police and courts need to deal with that.

I don’t think so, or at least not in recent times. However it may be required at some point and if no-one is threatening/planning to threaten anyone with the wrath of god then theres no harm in leaving it exactly where it is imo. Why ask for it to be repealed at all if it’s a non issue?