I’m basically being mean to an old man

[Poiboi]

My relationship with my dad is complex. I have never met a man with a shorter fuse. Growing up this was hell. The stress of my dad running his own business during childhood meant the stress levels in our house were often unpleasant to experience. This resulted in him hitting his kids - beyond what is acceptable. My dad also hit my mum twice that I am aware of. On more than one occasion I had to lie about bruises - even remember being told by my mum when I was very young to lie about a mark as I would be taken away.

Im conflicted because a lot of the stress was due to school fees. Clearly my dad wanted the best for me. Still no excuse to be abusive.

Equally when my dad was not stressed he was nice to be around. And worked hard to send us on day trips, buy toys etc.

Anyway, he has now mellowed considerably now that raising children and running businesses are far behind him. He is very gentle with my kids and lets them get away with murder. He is more relaxed but still capable of an outburst here and there. Just less intense.

The horrible bit. Every now and then my dad will stay with us for a few days. He will do something careless despite knowing better. And I will be unnecessarily harsh. Sometimes I know I am crossing the line but I’m almost wanting to punish him for being so monstrous to me as a child. I literally think “yeah not so nice getting a taste of your own medicine”. I feel like a psychopath. I’m not.

Please don’t suggest going nc. I love him and need to ensure his needs are met.

Just needed to confess anonymously.

You need counselling - even if you've already had lots of it - to give you somewhere neutral to download all this anger (which is entirely justified and appropriate). I say this not for his sake but for yours, because not being able to control how and when you release the anger is making you miserable.

Also you need a few go-to strategies for when he does push your buttons. Grey rock technique, going to a different room, making a drink while counting to 20, whatever works for you. And keep the visits short. Guests are like fish, they go off after three days.

I think it’s common. It’s probably not good for you though.

You are justifiably angry, I agree to get some counselling. You need to learn how to deal with this, it's eating you up.

What's he doing that you think is careless? X

One recent example. He knows we are no shod house. He didn’t take off his shoes and tracked mud all over the place.

My cat is an indoor cat and he left the door open

Tell him how you feel about his abuse. You’re in the right and he’s in the wrong. What a nasty man. Age has nothing to do with it. No free pass for abuse bc of age.

It’s a common reaction to childhood trauma like yours and I’d try to not judge yourself too harshly.

maybe though it would be helpful to reframe things. Even though you know things have changed a part of you still sees him as the big scary aggressive man and you as the small defenceless child who he terrorised.

you are in danger of falling into the trap that as he ages what actually happens is your roles begin to reverse where you are the powerful (scary) adult and he is now in the vulnerable position. Where you are committing the trauma. You are doing this because being around him triggers something deep inside combined with your tolerance for him being low (due to your past with him)

(From experience) remembering how scary it was and how much impact his treatment of you has had I know you would never want to be the reason another human feels those things and he will because he is becoming the weaker of you both.

for whatever it’s worth I’m saying this for you what he did to you is unforgivable but don’t allow yourself to one day have to live with the guilt. The idea you might feel one day you became him will be a complete mindfuck!

I am definitely NOT saying though that you should just put up with all behaviour or that you shouldn’t enforce your boundaries but I think you might be worried it’s more than that.

I'm very sad for you. You have so much pain bottled up from the abuse you suffered as a child and no one helped you. It's no wonder at all you lash out at your father now, and no one can blame you for it. The burden of emotional pain you carry must be very, very heavy.

I think you need an honest conversation with him and tell him how upset and impacted you were in regards to his previous behaviour. Also how much you appreciate his retired behaviour but your mind still dwells on his old behaviour. So acknowledgment of the way things were and what he did, how you felt and then forgive him. Forgiving him doesn’t mean forgetting but it will help you move forward. Talking therapies might also help with this.

I am so sorry for what has happened in your past. You need counselling to be able to deal with him in a way that doesn't see you lash out. Your children will see how you treat him and this will have an effect on them.

take care

Counselling and an honest conversation with him.

It sounds like every time you do this to your Dad you are not only venting your hurt and punishing him, you are also punishing yourself. You definitely need counselling for your own sake. Coming to terms with the past and even finding a way to accept your father's flaws as well as your own would bring you some inner peace that is clearly lacking at present.

This is so tricky.

Your dad behaved appallingly when you were a child. So of course you want to give him a taste of what it was like.

This does not make you a psychopath at all.

It means that you are very angry at him. As you should be actually.

Does counselling mean you process and rationalise that anger and your father sees none of it? Should he really be unaware however old he is?

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with your telling him how his behaviour affected you and how bang out of order you think he was.

Therapy for your own sake and mental peace will do you good absolutely but I'd be interested to see what that means in terms of your relationship with your dad and the honesty between you.

I’m also in the honest conversation camp. But have a think about what it is you want to say.

1. Your temper made my childhood horrible.
2. Wanting the best for someone is not free license for your behaviour.
3. How you spoke to me as a child is my model of everything to avoid
4. I saw you hit my mother, you were 100% wrong to do that. And now you’re just A Man Who Hits His Wife
5. Are you aware of how much people see you as a massive hypocrite in feeling entitled to scream and shout like you did whilst wanting the kid glove treatment yourself.
6. The fact you’ve had so many years to think about this and still see no need for an apology is unbelievable.
7. Dad, this is not going to go away. You need to actually be prepared for that. You know it’s wrong because we had to keep secrets for you. We had to hide and lie about bruises.
8. Don’t bother with anything that sounds like “I didn’t mean to.” I didn’t mean to get things dirty or make a noise as a child, that didn’t cut it.
9. Do you even have any idea what you have done?

Please don’t suggest going nc. I love him and need to ensure his needs are met.

this might not be possible: have you considered this? I’m not saying you need to go nc. But it does strike me that you are working very hard to maintain an image of a ‘normal family’, and the feelings that are bubbling up are because of this dissonance. You are pushing all your anger at your dad down, plastering a happy, “look at my lovely dad and his happy grandchildren” smile on - but your true feelings keep bubbling up.

What if he’s not being ‘careless’? What if that’s actually him - same as he ever was? He didn’t care then, maybe he doesn’t care now either.

Look at this situation from another perspective. Would you be happy if someone had physically and mentally abused your children for years, then coming to stay with them and them having to look after them?

Have you thought that the abuse may still be happening? With him managing to still make you play along and act like things are ok while he is doing things to hurt you like dirtying your home and letting your pet escape?

He sounds like a very dangerous man.

I wrote my dad a letter. The abuse was different to what you described but basically I wrote it all down. I wrote down how I felt, how scared I was and how it affected so much of me.
I sent him the letter in an email with a cover note that said he should open this with his counsellor. He did.
He actually wrote back the best letter he could have done in the circumstances, he said he was sorry. He hadn't realised how much of an impact it had but he can see now how it did.
It really helped.
I will never truly forgive him but I am at peace with it now.

you are working very hard to maintain an image of a ‘normal family’, and the feelings that are bubbling up are because of this dissonance. You are pushing all your anger at your dad down, plastering a happy, “look at my lovely dad and his happy grandchildren” smile on - but your true feelings keep bubbling up.

💯 agree. The dissonance must he huge.

Another one in the honest conversation camp. You'll prob find it hard because youve been trained by your mother to "keep the peace" and stay silent and avoid awkwardness and "making it worse".

Personally I'd write a letter. Sit down alone with him ideally at his house*, read it aloud and once you've said your peace, give him a copy.
*that way you can easily leave if you want.

I also want to reassure you and say i think your behaviour is totally understandable and a "normal" response given what you endured. Angry parents often create "angry" kids.

Edit: @Andwegoroundagain im shocked you got that level of acknowledgment and closure. Its pretty rare. **

I grew up with a volatile DM. It makes for a complicated relationship when they’re vulnerable and need your support in old age.

Trust me, when he’s gone you will regret losing your temper with a vulnerable old man. It won’t give you the satisfaction and closure you’re after.

I felt exactly like this with my bully of a mother. Honestly, her dying early helped me come to terms with it because she was never going to have an honest conversation about the topic while alive.

I miss her now sometimes, as she could sometimes be nice, but I don't miss the hour-long rants about how fat and useless I was, or the hitting. I do regret the times I gave into the urge to be as horrible to her as she was to me though - they were only briefly satisfying and then left me feeling awful.

I wish you good luck OP, but be braced for denial and deflection.

These sound deliberate. Is he getting his own back because you shout at him or is he just a nasty man?

Also you DC are seeing an unpleasant side to your nature without knowing the background. And they are seeing a false image of DGrandad, he can be cruel.

Really feel for you OP. Agree, with a PP about the dissonance. Don't let him stay in your home, I wonder if this is triggering you? He's in your safe space and him being there makes it unsafe?

Have the conversation. I wish I had. My mum has dementia now so it’s not possible.

I once - just once - and very casually - spoke to my dad about how his behaviour had affected me and impacted on our adult relationship. I made it sound very calm and reasonable, as though I was fine with all of it, including how estranged we were as he got old and hoped to be waited on hand and foot.

Edited to add, it was very therapeutic. I saw him open his mouth to want to argue back and then close it, as everything i had said, in a very calm, accepting, 'it's all fine now' voice, was true. I wasn't spoiling for a fight, so he couldn't have one. And I wasn't lying either so he couldn't argue. It was one of the most empowering things I ever did with him. I really liked being very calm and reasonable, almost sweet about it as I listed the home truths in a very nice way.