To not understand the fixation on attendance?

[Gardenschmarden99]

Or at least to the level it currently is…

New education secretary and based on her speech to the association of school leaders it seems her focus is on attendance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m an ex teacher with two primary age children who go to school whenever they aren’t unwell. Broadly I’m in favour of children going to school!

But I don’t think I’ve met many teachers who really think the current fixation is helpful. For those with deep seated problems, they would benefit from intervention. For those families that were unlucky enough to catch covid and a sickness bug in one school year the rather officious computer says no letters just erode the seriousness of actual attendance problems.

When children are unwell, they shouldn’t be in school even if it makes the attendance dip below 97%.

SEN children without support don’t have an attendance problem, they have a support problem (and I know this is because central government don’t fund local government well enough to pay for it but the kids can’t help that!)

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher…. And yes, I’d also be in favour of my child’s teacher being able to go to a family wedding or see their child on sports day or (God forbid) have a day out with their spouse a few times a year.

My family live in a European country (not especially known for being ‘progressive’) where all this over focus on attendance is just not a thing. They outperform us in league tables for academic and mental health of children.

AIBU?

The whole school system relies on threats,punishments and rewards, it’s a flawed idea.
I’m from a Scandinavian country and we have none of that and none of that and we do better in education.

Ofsted requirement.

Yes.

What's your point?

Yes, but the first rule of interpreting data is that correlation does not equal causation.

As many have already said on this thread there are many interweaving reasons why there is correlation between attendance and achievement. But causation is a lot harder to disentangle.

Yes. In fact, I would argue that low attendance, rather than being a cause of low achievement, should be treated as a flag that signposts to the liklihood of low achievement. The attenance itself is a red herring. There is an underlying issue which leads to 1. low attendance and 2 low attainment. Potentially.

When I worked in school admin we had a pupils university offer withdrawn because of her dreadful attendance record. It does matter, especially in senior school. Teachers can not repeat lessons as the curriculum is so packed, so pupils missing school are disadvantaged.

The real issue is that the vast majority of reasons why children do have poor attendance can't be fixed by threatening letters, or fines or jail threats. They just add extra stressors on the family/child and breaks down relationships and trust with the school.

That maybe ebing in school is a better option out of the two, did you find it hard to figure out that you had to ask?

As a Chair of Govs at a state school obsessed with attendance the argument that attendance and grades are correlated really depends on cohort. Schools are usually obsessed by splitting data into cohorts when it suits them, but not for this. The reality is that the parents life and pressures has more of a correlation on the attendance and grades.
The parents that have the time (sometimes inclination) to support their child through reading at early years and supporting homework like times tables etc will mostly do better.
You can break this cohort down further to pupil premium and other similar income type groupings. No-one wants to admit that poorer families, often with single mums doing their best to put food on the table also struggle to support their kids. Add to kids with SEN to that as a cohort split and the data is depressing.
If we helped these families more their children’s outcomes would be better.
It’s also much easier for heads to bully more well off parents who go on holiday a week early in summer, although, in the days I see, those children are rarely the issue for the lower attendance = worse outcomes.

It's an interesting point, however, in most cases that trust already does not exist and hence the poor attendance in first place.

Many parents just dont think highly of school, for a variety reasons. Some prefer to holiday during the year only to post Angry People in Local Newspaper style photos once they get a fine, many think they could be better teachers if they had that job (they wouldnt, but hey ho), many refuse to engage with schools when initial conversations about attendance happen, many are very defensive. I had a few students who were let to stay at home with the lightest cold, some period pain (and I dont mean severe pain/bleeding but literally, the normal period most girls experience). I am exlucing from personal statistics SEN students and kids with major mental health issues. But I count kids who mostly could have come to school but had a bit of a cold, and parents were either disengaged, or didnt take the attendance seriously because they felt self-important. For some a letter was a kick in the butt to actually get a kid to school or not get another term time holiday to Disneyland.

Also a teacher. Students come in when they're sick and spread germs around. Or they return too soon and can't concentrate so might as well be home getting better. It sets a problematic precedent. It's a culture here in the UK now and probably comes from the USA, it's not a good work ethic, it spreads germs around and isn't good for mental health. Staff can be put under pressure to work when sick. I don't know why the current ed sec is going on about it, but the previous ones have too, it's been a thing for the last 20 years or more and fluctuates in terms of how schools respond to dips in attendance

These poor attenders become poor attenders all through life and are on a mission to achieve nothing. I see it in Further and Higher Education. I have evidence. When bursaries are involved, it becomes fraud.

I've worked in schools for years and would say this is the worst year for illness I've ever had, and one of the reasons is this obsession with attendance. Sending sick children to school just spreads it around and no one has time to get better before catching the next illness. Staff included. Even in the last few montts we've had Strep A, Scarlet Fever, Covid, sickness bugs and well as things like chicken pox etc... My own children have the worst attendance they've ever had because they just keep getting sick, I'll be glad when this school year is over!

I wouldn’t mind it going the other way. We moved house months ago and the new county still haven’t found a school place for my child. I’d love to fine them for each day missed. And compensate me for not being able to work.

In order for the child to recover from school based trauma this will take different approaches and time.
For some children sitting on their phones or watch TV can be part of the process of recovery. Low demand, low stress environment to enable their body and mind to start recovery.
Time in nature, time with supportive adults, time to build relationships with peers.

Many things and combinations of tactics will be needed.
A child with a broken thigh bone in cast may appear to be sat on their bottom but they are hardly fit to run a 100m sprint. I doubt they and their family will be judged harshly for that.

A child who had an emotional breakdown, is in burn out or is mentally unwell shouldn't be judged by people like you either

I had a lot of respect for schools, I had a lot of trust that they would put support in place as needed.
My trust was broken by the system. The letters didn't help improve attendance and they caused a lot of stress.
I would still trust schools if they had done what they should have. I would still respect schools if they didn't send letters out and pressure me to get child in when my child was very ill

I had poor attendance at school but my work attitude and attendance has been excellent.
I see this with others who had poor attendance for all manor of reasons growing up too.

I am a teacher. Some parents respond to the letters by asking for help or admitting there is a problem. We have a family being supported by Women's Aid as a result of those letters. I am sorry if some parents are offended to receive them but surely you can just throw it away and ignore it, whilst rationally knowing that they do actually serve a purpose.

"I had poor attendance at school but my work attitude and attendance has been excellent.
I see this with others who had poor attendance for all manor of reasons growing up too."

Interesting but research suggests your outcome is not typical.

The thing that gets to me about the attendance targets is the fact that schools go for the easy targets,rather than dealing with the kids with more complex issues. It is really cynical, as the purpose behind the attendance targets is to encourage families who don't value education to make an effort and help their children to achieve to their full potential.
However, those families are mire likely to be rude when challenged, and if they do engage, their problems are often difficult for schools to fix. Therefore it is much easier to send stroppy letters to the parents of children who gave been off for 3 weeks after surgery, who have been unlucky enough to get Norovirus and chicken pox in the same year, or who have had tonsillitis three times in a year and are being monitored to see if they need their tonsils out.
I guess schools figure that those parents are unlikely to complain.

But they don’t compose data of attendance AND attainment. They just don’t care about that. My son has 82% attendance due to post covid illness confirmed by the doctors. He is top of his class, has just taken a GCSE 2 years early and has more merit points than almost anyone in his year. We have still been hauled in, told we are breaking the law and threatened with court several times. The stress this causes the whole family is awful. The local attendance officer even said they don’t care about attainment. It’s purely about that attendance ‘percentage’
Conplete and utter bullshit. But then my friends daughter has leukaemia and they are also threatening to take her to court. It’s completely f**led up. Meanwhile, kids who are at school 100% but are miserably failing nobody seems to give a shit about because hey, they’re in school every day. 🤬

Please give a link to the research you quote?

We asked for help before and after the many letters.

A tutor at home while unable to attend school (as hospital education dept also requested) never happened
Shorter days - not legally allowed (others have had this)
Ed psych assessment (refused)
Extra support in lessons (no funding)
Apply for EHCP (No child doesn't meet criteria)
Do something things are awful ( nothing we can do)

Etc etc
Pushed from pillar to post and getting no support just countless letters and meetings which get us no where

No, we send the letter to everyone and follow up with everyone in exactly the same way.

You may consider yourself an easy target and feel cross when you get a letter, or at least those are the vocal families on sm, but behind the scenes we will be working with all of those hard-to-reach families too. They just don't talk about it and not do we.

"Conplete and utter bullshit. But then my friends daughter has leukaemia and they are also threatening to take her to court. It’s completely f**led up. Meanwhile, kids who are at school 100% but are miserably failing nobody seems to give a shit about because hey, they’re in school every day. 🤬"

If true, you've got a bad school there. Utterly outrageous and certainly not my experience at any school I've encountered. Threatening court for a child with leukaemia? Very very hard to believe.