To not understand the fixation on attendance?

[Gardenschmarden99]

Or at least to the level it currently is…

New education secretary and based on her speech to the association of school leaders it seems her focus is on attendance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m an ex teacher with two primary age children who go to school whenever they aren’t unwell. Broadly I’m in favour of children going to school!

But I don’t think I’ve met many teachers who really think the current fixation is helpful. For those with deep seated problems, they would benefit from intervention. For those families that were unlucky enough to catch covid and a sickness bug in one school year the rather officious computer says no letters just erode the seriousness of actual attendance problems.

When children are unwell, they shouldn’t be in school even if it makes the attendance dip below 97%.

SEN children without support don’t have an attendance problem, they have a support problem (and I know this is because central government don’t fund local government well enough to pay for it but the kids can’t help that!)

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher…. And yes, I’d also be in favour of my child’s teacher being able to go to a family wedding or see their child on sports day or (God forbid) have a day out with their spouse a few times a year.

My family live in a European country (not especially known for being ‘progressive’) where all this over focus on attendance is just not a thing. They outperform us in league tables for academic and mental health of children.

AIBU?

DD2's needs aren't particularly severe, all she needed was secondary school to be more like primary school which she loved. A middle school system would probably have been good, or a school that just wasn't massive, with no proper transition in 2020, with loads of fear generated by the government about getting Covid and passing it on to your gran, a school with a ton of extra rules and taped off teachers and desks, with no fun things she enjoyed like sports and school trips. I can't say as I blame her TBH, what we did to kids in 2020 and 2021 was appalling. DD1 started self-harming after they closed school again in 2021 as ironically she is the opposite and needed the routine of school. The cohort who started secondary school in 2020 are the worst affected. We threw them to the wolves.

One thing that does surprise me as well is that the majority of parents work now - they need their dc in school so they can work - the fact that attendance levels are so bad despite this really says to me there is a problem with the school environment not parenting.

In the 80s/90s when I was at school most of us had mums that didn’t work and our dads did - you’d think that would mean it was easier for children to be off but it wasn’t the case we were all in most days - but the pace of the school day was slightly better and we spent longer on each subject now it seems to be they are trying to fit too much in and it’s overwhelming a lot of children

I disagree that they were the worst affected.

Children starting EYFS in 2020 have really suffered - two years without the structure and socialisation they needed has been a disaster for their development.

Also teens leaving school in 2020 and 2021 - no closure or saying goodbye, grades given rather than earnt, lost university places and whole lives derailed through no fault of their own.

The children of our working parents have excellent attendance.

Non-working parents are more likely to allow a day off, or part time working parents allow it on their days off.

This is the point. Attendance should be a marker that is used to identify issues. Instead it's become the goal.

And automated letters are ridiculous. A friend kept receiving ones when her dd was in hospital. When she contacted the school they sort of shrugged their shoulders in a "well, that's the process but don't worry, you aren't in any real trouble" sort of way - the last thing she needed while dealing with a very sick child.

Do you not have any idea how hard it is to work if your children can't attend regularly.
I don't 'allow' days off, but equally I can not work because of the time off for appointments and illness.
I can't say go to school it's wednesday you can be sick on Saturday

I understand a child that is exhausted by school is likely to be off on the days a parent is home because they likely to say go in today and see how you feel tomorrow. Child is likely to push themselves and then feel even worse the next day

There are a gang of boys around our way who don't seem to go to school. One, who lives round the corner from us, did go at least some of the time in primary school but as far as we can tell, he's not going to high school at all. Last week, at DS' sports day - which is held off school grounds in a local athletics track - these boys were lurking, watching the students, being a bit threatening (they have form for attacking and bullying the children, including my DS) and at one point attempted to climb the fence to get into the where the school was. they were, needless to say, chased off by teachers.

But I had to ask myself - what is happening here? These parents know their children aren't going to school. Are they just too exhausted by their children's behaviour that they can't fight any more? Or do they not care? What do the schools these children are supposed to be going to think about it? These are the children attendance goals should be targeting because they are the ones who, long term, are suffering from a lack of education.

Obsessing over the kid who is down to 94% becuase he had a few extra days with a virus is not really the problem.

"This is the point. Attendance should be a marker that is used to identify issues. Instead it's become the goal. "

I agree. At our school it is used this way. Some parents ignore the letter, and some are furious to receive it, but some respond and ask for help. That's why it's worth doing, even if some parents are terribly affronted to receive it.

I already posted a little list of things we've done to help parents with attendance issues.

We have negotiated with employers on their behalf, paid for breakfast club, sourced a cheap washing machine for someone who wouldn't send her children in dirty clothes but didn't have a washing machine, joined them for medical appointments.

I am not stupid and know there must be bad schools out there who are falling short.

But I think it's only fair to then say that there are some bad parents too, who are also falling short - some want help, some think they can handle it themselves, some don't see a problem at their end and want to rage at the school.

Some parents ignore the letter, and some are furious to receive it, but some respond and ask for help.

That's great, but the point at which the letter is triggered needs review. Sending the letter when the child has missed a month of school and you know they've been in hospital is NOT helpful and adds to the stress. There are ways to automate this to remove the workload but still have a human cast an eye over it - eg school's system identifies children who are below. Someone casts a quick eye over the lists. Spots that Jenny is on there, but has had meningitis. Removes Jenny. List is then sent out with auto-generated letters to everyone else.

Not hard.

To me there are two easy fixes here:

Stop the holiday industry profiteering during holiday seasons
Stop the reward of 100% attendance. I dont go to work 100% of the year, why would a child? Its abelism and as soon as a kid is too ill, thats their attendance fucked for the year and theres no point trying to strive for it anymore.

I recall many years ago a Year 11 girl was to be presented with a special award because she had never missed a day from starting school in Reception, the local Mayor was coming to present it and the press had been lined up. Sadly, she broke her arm the evening before and missed her presentation! Even she saw the funny side of it when she came to collect her GCSE certificates a couple of months later.

I agree it needs looking at individually …

The attendance is …. % send a letter is pointless .

The children with 20% attendance need more help than those with 90% .

i remember taking a month out of school to go travelling in the 70’s .. it was not an issue then

You misunderstand how holidays are priced. the peak holiday time is the normal price. That’s where they make their profit. The off peak time is discounted to cover costs. It isn’t that prices are put up but they are put down when things are quiet. You can’t ask holiday companies to reduce their peak time prices or they would not be in business. Having a holiday is not a human right. I didn’t go on holiday every much as child and when we did it was cheap and cheerful. I didn’t take my kids on holiday until they were about 8 years old as the cost wasn’t worth it vs their enjoyment at that age. Holidays are never a reason to take time off during school time. Illness and family issues such a bereavement are perfectly acceptable.

How true is that though, across the Board?

I took flights during term time to a popular holiday destination and the flights were completely full, as were the local bars and restaurants.

Foy family AI resorts, the above makes sense. But absolutely not elsewhere.

That shows the system works well. The lower prices incentivised people to go in off peak times. Peak times often correspond to school holidays but school holidays often are at times which are popular for everyone such as Xmas or summer.

I find this so ridiculous. The holiday industry must adjust its entire model based on a perfectly valid, and in existence since the first two cavemen made a deal over who would get which part of the mammoth after a hunt, of supply and demand? Putting aside the fact that attendance is not an overall issue because of the odd holiday, how on earth are you going to get the global travel indusrry on side? So ridiculous.

Rather, get our economy a lot more sorted and encourage growth so that the rest of us can actually enjoy a holiday without having to take our kids out of school. As I pointed out to someone on the weekend - by any metric, I am demonstrably less well off financially today than I was 10 years ago because even with some increase in earnings, everything else has gone up. As a result, I cannot afford annual holidays anymore. If my wage increase could be in line with the actual increase in my costs, then this would not be an issue.

This is astonishing small minded thinking. As @Drfosters points out - school holidays often correspond to popular times to travel globally. But our school holidays are not the same as other school holidays. Believe it or not, that resort in france's peak time encompasses far more than just your 6 weeks of school holiday.

Ok...calm down? Its not that deep!

I think that sometimes parents forget (and children haven’t yet learned) that once you have a job it doesn’t matter if it’s sometimes boring, or if you have to wear a uniform, or if your boss is a bit of an arse - they will sack you if you’re off too often without very good reason.
Attendance isn’t just for attendance sake. It’s safeguarding. It’s important for academic achievement. It’s a very important thing to learn for your future because your employer might well not care less about your mental health, your sniffly cold or your difficulty getting up in the mornings.
You need to go to work, the days and hours you’re supposed to be there. Bar serious illness or very good reason. They will get rid pretty quick if you’re not.

Agree with this. Some parents at the moment are raising their kids to think they can just 'ask for reasonable adjustments!' for a load of stuff. In reality, employers won't always agree to adjustments - legally they can consider cost, disruption, practicality, effectiveness etc. I honestly think we are doing young people a disservice if we aren't realistic about what they can expect out in the working world.

Ah the 'in the real world' argument

In the real world you can't be discriminated for not being able to walk upstairs. You can use the lift (in school you need a special pass and they decide if you deserve it) if you need to or choose to.
In the real world.ypu can have access to work which funds the specialist equipment or support you need.

In work as long as your clothes are not a safety risk and aren't inappropriate you decide what you wear. In school uniform has no practical need, no safely need but you can be in trouble for grey socks rather than black ones

Rules for rules sake is something the real world doesn't have.

To those people saying that parents don't care about their child's education.....

Do you think that parents who take a more holistic approach to raising children may care about education but not to the exclusion of all other facets of the child's experience and needs? Does it have to be so binary?

If you are right and so many parents simply don't care, do you think that this is indicative of the education system failing a large proportion of children? I doubt academically high achievers are the children with 20% attendance. So, what do these children need that they are not getting from school?

Except... It absolutely does?! Loads of workplaces have a uniform! And no, if you arrive at work not wanting to go in they wont gently offer you a choice of locations to work in today, and try and persuade you to start work 🙄

When you apply for jobs do you apply for workplaces that scare you. Maybe working at a spider shop when your biggest fear is spiders?

I suspect not. You apply for jobs linked to things you can do. Maybe it takes a while to find a workplace that you can cope with.
With school you have no choice which school you attend. With work we have a certain level of choice
You also get paid for the job you do and if you don't cope with work there is a benefit system so you don't starve. So those who can't find any environment they can cope with won't work.
Most people do find suitable work but being destroyed by school actually makes that harder

That's the real world

We no longer send children to work as soon as they can walk, though. We don't expect a child to regulate their emotions in the same way that an adult would at work.

The idea that children should have the exact same expectations as adults is ridiculous.

I'm sure my youngest will be absolutely fine as an adult, but the environment and stressors in school are a massive issue for him. His education would be damaged by his not being allowed some adjustments. A lot of people will function in the 'real world' just fine without adaptions because they choose to pursue a career that is fitted to them as an individual.