To actually feel sorry for the woman driving the car in the Wimbledon car accident

[bagpuss90]

I’m sure I’ll be flamed here . I totally sympathise with the bereaved parents- I can’t stress that enough. I can understand them wanting justice . As we know the driver of the car suffered an epileptic seizure at the wheel - she had no history of epilepsy. I don’t see what she could have done differently. She has to live with what she did although it wasn’t her fault. AIBU to feel quite sorry for her ?

Probably those backing the driver to the hilt are possibly epilepsy sufferers who want to carry on driving,

In that case I suggest you never drive again, in any car, in case you are unfortunate enough to suffer a sudden, unexpected and first seizure. It can happen to anyone after all. So I mean, why would you be selfish enough to take the risk and drive at all?

Probably those backing the driver to the hilt are possibly epilepsy sufferers who want to carry on driving,

Are you actually literally out of your non existent mind ?

@Longma I assume you are not a Forensic Collision Investigator that’s been involved in thousands of car crashes cases and can determine with 100% accuracy that a smaller vehicle would not make any difference at all?

If not, then we simply can’t say based on an article with another car crash that a smaller car will not make a difference in this or in other cases in general.

Well, no we cant't. However I think it's clear it's likely to have had the same affect given that smaller cars have been known to take down house walls in similar situations.

And the bottom line remains - it is not illegal to own and drive larger cars in this country. Therefore she did nothing wrong by driving one that day.

Chances are there are many families at that school who,also own and drive one, or similar.

Probably those backing the driver to the hilt are possibly epilepsy sufferers who want to carry on driving,

That's so daft it's hard to respond, but, just in case:

Someone with uncontrolled epilepsy who carried on driving would be dicing with death. Probable?

The rules around epilepsy and driving are not made up randomly, or based on a moral judgment. They're actuarial. A driver with well controlled epilepsy, who has been seizure-free for the prescribed period, has a similar risk of having a seizure at the wheel to any random driver (bearing in mind that epilepsy can start at any age and that non-epileptic seizures are also a thing).

I still doubt it is right to compare 2 cases without taking part in both investigations.

Also the post you responded to didn’t mention that it is illegal to drive a SUV. They made an assumption that a smaller car would not make the same impact. As you made an assumption that it will make the same impact. But the reality is that we simply don’t know.

I have even less sympathy for her than before, if that’s possible. Totally agree with @MaturingCheeseball perspective. I am baffled at the apparent lack of compassion for grieving parents here and an underlying inference that this woman’s suffering is more than theirs. Out of this thread now. It’s too upsetting.

Ah yes, because the only way to demonstrate compassion for the parents is to demonize another blameless party.

I’ve seen no inference her suffering is more than theirs, just acknowledgement that she has indeed suffered. This isn’t a team sport where you can only ‘support’ one.

Where is the lack of compassion for the grieving parents exactly ? Why the perception that having sympathy for the driver, who, if she was in the throes of a seizure at the time of the accident, is entirely blameless, in any way detracts from being able to feel for the awful grief the parents must feel ? Absolutely no one - no-one, has intimated that the drivers’ suffering is greater than theirs - that would be absurd.

The most upsetting thing about this thread is the willingness of some posters to make things up as they go along, to perpetuate untruths, and to refuse to accept that there can be empathy for everyone involved in this tragic incident - the children who lost their lives, the families of the deceased, the witnesses and the driver. No one emerged unscathed, and if the driver is judged as not to blame, she is just as entitled to regain her driving licence as any other seizure sufferer who meets the standard for driving again. Holding her to a different standard isn’t justice, it’s revenge.

But how differently would a smaller but still multi tonne lump of metal driving at speed, and out of control, presumably with the unconscious drivers’ foot clamped to the accelerator, actually affect the outcome ? If this woman did have a seizure, then her last deliberate act beforehand was simply to get into her car and head for her destination. The rest was beyond her control. Had she known beforehand that this would be the result, I doubt she would have got into any model of car. And if SUV’s are banned, what then ? The next time say a BMW is involved in a similar situation do we ban those as well ? While humans use cars to get around this kind of tragedy is always going to be a possibility because the human condition cannot be foreseen.

This. The thread started out as a simple question - OP wanted to know whether is unreasonable to feel sorry for the driver. That produced two separate camps - those who think she isn’t and those who think she is. In true MN style the original question has now been completely sidelined and has morphed into driver v victims. And some posters are seemingly very happy to make things up as they go along, and to perpetuate untruths to support their narrative.

Absolutely. And having had first hand experience in a disability advisory capacity I can attest to the stringent checks carried out before a licence is reinstated. A licence can be surrendered voluntarily after a seizure, or if there has been an incident it can be revoked by DVLA. In either case you can’t just ask for your licence back and self certify that you are seizure free - in the majority of cases GP or other healthcare professional involved with the driver will have to certify that they meet the standard and where there is doubt they will defer to DVLA assessment. And where a licence has been revoked, DVLA will carry out further investigation before making a decision. There’s a lot of utter nonsense being spouted on this thread by people who clearly have no idea of the processes involved.

So we shouldn’t speculate either way until the results of the inquest are made public.

Either way, if a seizure did cause the accident, then she didn’t do anything wrong given that driving an SUV is not illegal.

So where do we start with that ? SUV’s obviously. Then what ?

Why do have less sympathy for one person because some other people on mumsnet don’t agree with you?

Thats so weird.

Where is a lack of compassion or sympathy for the parents?

It’s not a lack of compassion to understand that something has happened which is devastating, but also that there’s no one legally to blame and that person will be allowed to legally drive if they meet certain criteria. It’s not a lack of compassion to understand that sometimes a situation occurs and it’s awful for all people involved. And while it’s more awful for the parents, it’s still an awful situation for the driver who couldn’t have done anything to predict or prevent it (based on what’s currently known).

Spoilsport! 😉

I think the only thing protecting this thread from sudden death is the fact that it won't be a jury inquest.

I think the issue is one of the confidentiality of the medical evidence and the way in which the police handled things. I think it’s only hearsay that she walked away with no after effects - one of the accounts says she was led away, and if it was an absence type seizure there may not have been any after effects. I can’t imagine that after smashing through a fence and hitting a building she would be able to walk away unscathed, regardless of the intensity or after effect of the seizure. Presumably the evidence presented at the inquest will clarify things.

Several posters implying along these lines although most are not overtly ableist and ignorant or brave enough to come out and say it in so many words.

I think what I have learned from this thread is that populism has now penetrated into every aspect of our lives.

It is so much easier when faced with a tragedy like this to run with your emotions and look for someone to blame and then create a narrative that backs up your prejudice rather than to think through the complex reality. Black and white, no grey. Then name and shame the target of their blame, no matter if they risk getting it wrong.

Then when someone comes along with some facts and highlights the complexity and ambiguity, then you resort to arguing straw men, accusing people of views they have not expressed, and cry “paid actors” acting on behalf of some shadowy conspiracy. Anyone who is not with them is against them. They just cannot allow any complexity to the issue or humanity to the target of their blame.

And the tabloids are only too happy to exploit those emotions to sell papers. Except to be fair to the tabloids even they have backed off trying to single out the driver for blame, though the police have handled this very badly and stepped into the breach.

Well said.

Daily Mail ran a hit piece with a suggestive headline and lots of pictures of her looking happy, rich, etc. And to their credit, the readers were all 'lay off the poor woman, you ghouls!' about it. DM readers taking the moral high ground over Mumsnetters: who'd have thunk it?

I know what I have learned from this thread... that there were no winners on that terrible tragic day, least of all the driver who was definitely having a seizure at the time of impact, a fact that has been proved beyond any doubt whatsoever by a whole team of neurologists (not even just doctors apparently, but neurologists, and they would know something like that) and anyone who suggests that some evidence of this might be forthcoming is basically commiting blasphemy and should be told to calm down and check their very understandable emotions as they clearly can't think rationally at this very emotionally charged and difficult time. I'm completely sold. Especially by the Daily Mail commentators.

It was probably a pile on organised by the SUV / Epilepsy alliance…..😉

What on earth is the point of being sarcastic about something which is about to be subjected to a full inquest? And yes, there probably will be neurologists at the inquest.