To actually feel sorry for the woman driving the car in the Wimbledon car accident

[bagpuss90]

I’m sure I’ll be flamed here . I totally sympathise with the bereaved parents- I can’t stress that enough. I can understand them wanting justice . As we know the driver of the car suffered an epileptic seizure at the wheel - she had no history of epilepsy. I don’t see what she could have done differently. She has to live with what she did although it wasn’t her fault. AIBU to feel quite sorry for her ?

Well said.

I’ll have a crack at this.

I am not questioning the integrity of all epileptic people, I am pointing out that the ones who regain their license are incentivised to lie about having another seizure in order to keep their license.

This comment was directly aimed at people who for one reason or another have had seizures and then been declared seizure free and fit to drive. You may think you qualified that you were not questioning the integrity of all epileptic people, but the comment still called into question the integrity of those who have the condition and drive by suggesting that the process of regaining their licence presents an opportunity to lie in order to do so.

If someone already has a seizure condition which meets the standard for driving, they’re only likely to have a licence issued for a limited amount of time. Most people will be issued with a short-term medical driving licence, lasting for between one and five years depending on the individual. Each time the licence is renewed they must satisfy the standard, including any medical checks the DVLA deem necessary. Once they are seizure free for 5 years, DVLA may issue a standard 10 year licence if medical evidence supports this.

If someone has a seizure they can surrender their licence voluntarily, and when they’ve been seizure free for a year, can apply for renewal but a GP has to certify that they meet the standards for being seizure free, and where there is doubt, can refer to DVLA for assessment. If someone’s licence has actually been revoked then they must abide by the DVLA’s decision as to whether it will be renewed - again dependent on stringent medical checks.

I worked as a disability support worker for a charity for a number of years and have first hand experience of assisting people in their efforts to regain their driving privileges after seizures or other health events, so I know how difficult the process is. Most people I came across with seizure conditions wouldn’t even think of getting behind the wheel if they know they are still prone to seizures because they are only too aware of the consequences, both to other people, and to themselves.

I would imagine that given the circumstances in this case, the drivers’ licence will have been revoked, so she will be held to a rigid standard to regain it.

Nasty, ignorant post and entirely baseless. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this was the case, and once again ignorance and bias directed at those with seizure disabilities. Ableist and shameful and what’s actually diabolical is the mindset you demonstrate with this post.

Er - yes they did. The first articles appeared as breaking news from 7th July 2023 onwards. Later on, as details emerged about the driver possibly having a seizure, I remember several articles appearing in tabloids like The Sun and The Mail suggesting that there was no evidence to support this and intimating that it would be easy to fake.

And yet these article remain impossible to find now? How odd that a few of you on here are still so enraged by these articles that you definitely remember from a year ago that are clearly not in the public domain any longer, if they ever were, yet you are definitely not connected in any way to this case?

Because people who know that have seizures frequently choose to hide it do they can drive their precious children about with the risk of killing them. Yeah. Plausible 🙄

@Rosscameasdoody - I will not stoop to your level, but it’s unacceptable to repeatedly twist my words or write that I said something I did not.

I don’t care whether the driver had epilepsy/a heart attack/cramp in the leg - to me it’s irrelevant. The fact is she did kill accidentally two children and I am offended by some posters treating this as if she ran over someone’s foot. The girls didn’t run out in front of the car, the car was out of control and crushed them.

Again, I am not advocating punishment. It would be inappropriate. I know nothing of the driver and how she feels about things. But I do see here a group of posters with a barely-concealed callous attitude to the victims’ families and an ongoing aggressive promotion of the driver.

And what’s your basis for that?

Given that medical experts agree that seizures can come on with no warning?

Probably those backing the driver to the hilt are possibly epilepsy sufferers who want to carry on driving,

Her choice of an almost four ton vehicle capable of gunning through a fence in a built up area is selfish in my opinion.
Had she been driving a smaller vehicle, it probably would have crumpled and come to a stop- not gone careening on while her foot was clamped down on the gas pedal.

Complete straw man. I haven’t read a single post that displayed a callous attitude to the families, or ongoing aggressive promotion of the driver. Nobody is diminishing the tragedy these families have endured, nobody treating it as if she ran over somebody’s foot. It is about perspective, acknowledging that everyone involved had an extremely traumatic experience but that it was an accident, and nobody deserves to be vilified or punished.

I see no signs of anyone taking that perspective taking any sort of personal attitude to the driver beyond empathy for her experience as well as the family. Nobody with that empathy is trying to advocate for her as a person, or ascribe any personal characteristics to her beyond her situation whilst those who seek to vilify her are painting her, and even anyone with empathy for her, as dishonest, heartless, cruel, uncaring, disingenuous and all sorts of other personal characteristics based on total speculation. Try using your brain instead of your quick fire emotional response.

I have seen aggressive comments calling people stupid, simpletons, idiots, which is a bit ironic. I assume an empathic person will be polite to others even if they believe their opinions are wrong.

@Emilyontmoor - again, more insults. I have said none of those things. I’m afraid the pro-driver crew have said here unpleasant things about the teachers/families as well as repeatedly calling this tragedy merely “unfortunate” , generally playing it down and focusing on the woman’s “right to drive”. Sure she has a right to drive if it is deemed ok, but it seems to me to be somewhat odd for this to be your number one concern…

Wow! So you think anyone who isn’t an epilepsy sufferer is going to be vilifying this woman? Look at the poll result!

True any one of us, including you, could experience a seizure at any time in their lifetime, a 1 in 25 chance. The minority of those, 24-49% will go on to have further seizures. That will be partly predictable depending on a past history of brain injury etc. For the majority even of those the condition can be managed to prevent continual recurrence. By the way I am no expert and have no experience of epilepsy but I googled it, you should try it before you spout nonsense. But are you advocating 1 in 25 people should not be allowed to drive ever after they experience a one off or manageable seizure?

And how exactly do we all go about our lives, in whatever car we drive, on the basis of that 1 in 25 lifetime chance?

This was such a freak procession of events. She had a seizure whilst driving a car, that she had it at that point in the road and not having turned around the dogleg corner by the school so the car went away instead of towards the school. That her foot went down on the accelerator and not the brakel. Do you know that if any car would have been stopped or slowed by the railings and fence if it was being fully accelerated, because I don’t. Its a question for the Coroner for determine, with expert help, not oakleafy from a position of total ignorance.

let’s see what the coroner and police review have to say when the full facts come out

Where has anyone said unpleasant things about the families, or teachers. I would be the first to jump in if anyone in any way diminished their tragedy. However I fear you mean that some have commented that they are understandably not able to be emotionally objective? Of course they can’t. If it happened to me of course I would be lashing out, seeking someone to blame, wanting some sort of universal justice, even if it was a lightening bolt from the blue.

People have argued back at some ignorant and prejudiced comments about epilepsy. It does not mean it is their number one concern. It means that they also have concern for the 1 in 25 who experience seizures. You seem to think empathy and concern is a limited pool that should only be reserved for those you designate. Again nobody who is not a sociopath or in some way incapable of empathy would not demonise the trauma of losing a child. The issue is that most of us have empathy for others experiencing trauma and challenge too, it’s not finite.

Diminish not Demonise

Are you seriously suggesting that she bribed a Doctor to falsify her medical records? That's batshit even by MN standards.

Really?

You think there’s been some sort of communication to people who have epilepsy to come here and discuss this?

if you have epilepsy and meet certain criteria, you are allowed to drive. It’s not about wanting to.

Anyone, including you, can have a seizure at anytime. Even at the wheel. I get that’s comforting to think it could never be you but it can.

That fact that some people can understand this is a truly terrible thing that happened and that this woman might be able to drive again in future, doesn’t mean they have epilepsy.

Which vehicle should she have been driving? Vehicles don’t come in large and small. Huge amounts of vehicles would have had the same impact. A smaller car could have hit the fence and flipped. Still going through the fence and caused more devastation. At this stage no one actually knows. We could come up with a million situations where it could have been better or worse depending on the vehicle.

She was driving a perfectly legal vehicle. Whether you think it selfish or not is irrelevant, it doesn’t make her any more responsible for an accident that happened because of a medical episode she couldn’t have foreseen.

@oakleaffy

Probably those backing the driver to the hilt are possibly epilepsy sufferers who want to carry on driving,
Or we are just rational

Her choice of an almost four ton vehicle capable of gunning through a fence in a built up area is selfish in my opinion.
Total non sequitur
Her being epileptic and her driving a completely legal vehicle don't make her a criminal

I have sympathy for all involved but to the people who question the seizure, do you think this woman purposely drove into the school on a suicide mission to take others with her ? I mean what other explanation other than her having a seizure makes any sense ?

Please do enlighten us as to what you think that agenda is. You’ve hinted and implied all the way through this thread but you haven’t said what you actually mean. Could it be that you actually have no idea what seizure disorders are, or what the checks and balances for restoring someone’s driving licence after a seizure actually involve ? Seems to me you think this is on their own recognisance and I can assure you from personal experience this is not the case. Either you think that no-one who has had a seizure should be allowed to drive again, or you have demonstrated a huge bias against this driver if you think she should be prevented from driving again.

Probably those backing the driver to the hilt are possibly epilepsy sufferers who want to carry on driving,

Just wow. Ableist, ignorant in the extreme and utterly offensive to both seizure disorder sufferers and those of us intelligent enough to recognise the issues at hand. You really should ask MN to take this post down because it says more about you than anything else.

You’ve been called out several times with facts, as opposed to your biased and ableist opinion. Why do you keep digging ?

Posted too soon. I support the driver because I have the intelligence to understand what the issues are here. If you think that everyone here is backing the driver because they have skin in the game, you’re deluded. Or just plain ignorant.