To actually feel sorry for the woman driving the car in the Wimbledon car accident

[bagpuss90]

I’m sure I’ll be flamed here . I totally sympathise with the bereaved parents- I can’t stress that enough. I can understand them wanting justice . As we know the driver of the car suffered an epileptic seizure at the wheel - she had no history of epilepsy. I don’t see what she could have done differently. She has to live with what she did although it wasn’t her fault. AIBU to feel quite sorry for her ?

Is it shutting down discussion though? Or simply pointing out that people who have made accusations about epilepsy being "convenient" are being inappropriate, given that they are making assertions based on no evidence or knowledge whatsoever?

There is definitely a wider discussion to be had about why the investigation dragged on for a year, and whether the police are doing a decent job of keeping families and other parties updated with progress and it does seem that here they've failed to do that. And I think any of us can empathise with the families concerned. But does posting wild theories add anything to the "discussion"?

Based on what you say about the reaction of the headteachers, in the case of the postmaster scandal, they had to “butt out” and shut up when they had doubts about the investigation.

From reading the statements of those at the school when it occurred the anger is coming from a seemingly minimal investigation relative to the outcome, and that police have essentially just taking her word for it in regards to having a seizure. Typically after a seizure people are confused 'post-ictle' and take a while to come around but none of this was reported by the witnesses/ambulance service who were there, and then not interviewed in this regard.

This inability to recall/must have been a seizure is the standard excuse that's trotted out to absolve responsibility when someones had an accident. However normally this is relatively easily disproved/unlikely from the witness statements in the absence of classic post seizure signs. For some reason there doesn't seem to have been the drive to do that here so unsurprising that there's an opinion she's dodging justice which leads to feelings of anger.

In the scheme of things though it doesn't sound likely it was intentional, more that there was a minor bump she missed the brake and hammered the accelerator. It's a relatively common accident which is a normal car results in damage to a wall/other car etc. Unfortunately because of the car she was in and some unfortunate circumstances people have died. How much benefit to the public is there for her being prosecuted.... (personally I'd want her prosecuted for such an act of negligence) but I can see why those in change have essentially considered that her excuse will mean a loss of driving licence for a year or 2 which they deem is appropriate. But then unsurprising that the majority don't think this is appropriate given tragic outcome.

Nonsense. I'm just saying that the opinions of the headteachers on the accuracy of the investigation aren’t any more important, and shouldn’t hold any more weight, than the opinions of anyone else as the relevant medical evidence won’t have been shared with them.

That's not true unfortunately. A 'scan' (?mri or ct not sure what you're referring to) wouldn't be used to prove someone has had a seizure, if that were the case diagnosis of epilepsy would be simple!

What those scans are typically looking for is whether there's something like a tumour or structural abnormality in the brain which could cause seizures, but the absence/presence isn't proof of anything alone.

I’m intrigued. How have you been privy to the official witness statements and details of what was or was not investigated? Are you a police officer or a CPS employee involved in the case? If so, surely you shouldn’t be sharing confidential information. If not, how do you know these things?

Looks like I got deleted for swearing, so I'll try again without.

The families are entitled to feel however they feel, but presumably most if not all posters on here are not relatives of the girls. So there's no legitimacy by association.

And then if you think people are allowed to speculate and ghoul, it also follows that other posters are allowed to tell them they're speculating, ghouling and question their understanding of what they're talking about. Works both ways.

Based on the article the headteachers/teachers were also witnesses. So you are comparing a witnesses doubts with a random user on internet and say that they hold the same weight on the views of the investigation.

I have several friends with girls at The Study and I will say that the parents there are furious.

Anger, fury and utter devastation at this development. And I really cannot blame them for it.

My son didn’t have his first seizure until he was 25, out the blue!

It isn't closing down discussion to point out when the ignorant post made up bollocks.

They were witnesses to the dreadful accident and could report what happened before, during and immediately after the incident. That doesn’t mean they know anything about the details of the police investigation or the medical evidence. It would have been wrong for police to share confidential medical information about the driver with them.

It is quite possible that the police should, as a matter of courtesy, have kept them (and of course the poor parents) more informed about the progress of the investigation, and if so it is right that that should be investigated. But that is a different issue.

I think what it boils down to is that - understandably - the community and school are looking for someone to blame. And it must be difficult to accept that nobody was at fault, nobody is to blame, it couldn't have been predicted/avoided and was just a horrific accident.

Sometimes no one is to blame. The legal definition is “act of god” which this is. Equivalent to being struck by lightning. A healthy person had a medical episode that led to this awful outcome. We as a society have accepted the downside of driving around in cars. Feel utmost sympathy for the families but how will punishing her for her illness help?

I find it frightening that some of these people will do jury service 🙄

Yep. Sorry, misunderstood the comment.

Oh Christ I hadn't thought about that!

Up until this comment I was enjoying laughing at the stupidity of lots of the posters on here.

An EEG can be performed. If performed within 24-48 hours of a first seizure, it will show substantial abnormalities in about 70% of cases. The results may be lower with longer delays after the seizure but the abnormalities indicating seizure will still be there. In addition a simple blood test can detect a seizure by the immune response - the level of prolactin in the blood will be raised after a seizure. Additionally, if EEG doesn’t show an abnormality, a repeat EEG after sleep deprivation will show up any epilepsy related discharges in the brain. Why are so many people doubting that this is genuine ?

Why are they angry and devastated ? Is it because of the way the investigation has been handled, or the fact that no charges are appropriate in view of the medical details ?

Typically after a seizure people are confused 'post-ictle' and take a while to come around but none of this was reported by the witnesses/ambulance service who were there, and then not interviewed in this regard. This inability to recall/must have been a seizure is the standard excuse that's trotted out to absolve responsibility when someone’s had an accident. However normally this is relatively easily disproved/unlikely from the witness statements in the absence of classic post seizure signs. For some reason there doesn't seem to have been the drive to do that here so unsurprising that there's an opinion she's dodging justice which leads to feelings of anger

If it was a momentary absence seizure this may not be the case. These seizures usually last less than 10-20 seconds and the person may be confused for a few seconds and then back to normal, so there would be nothing to see from the point of view of the witnesses, but an absence of this length of time would be enough to cause the accident. It’s also important to note that not everyone is confused or dazed after a seizure - it depends on the type and duration. If there was no move to use the witness statements as proof that no seizure had taken place, then is it not possible they didn’t need to if they already had evidence that she had had a seizure ?

I think that’s very much the thought of some involved with this case. Yes she now has a diagnosis, but if someone told a doctor theyd had a seizure, and then a short while later said they had have another seizure then they would be diagnosed. They can give you a scan but even if there’s no evidence of a seizure on the scan you would get a diagnosis because not everyone will have markers/damage visible on the scan So it’s possible she’s had an test which does show evidence of a seizure but also possible her tests didn’t show any evidence.

saying that you can definitely develop it in adulthood (my dad did).

also I believe that the evidence at the scene shows no braking or swerving occurred which backs up the likelihood of it being a medical episode.

i think in all likelihood she did have a genuine seizure but I can understand the parents being angry and in denial and wanting someone to blame. I also agree the women shouldn’t have been named and shouldn’t have to share her medical records with the families, I’m sure she has shared them with the police.

I said this earlier but in case it was missed - on bbc IPlayer there is a good documentary series called crash detectives, which shows the work that goes into investigating fatal crashes. They very much don’t take anyone’s word for anything.

As devastating this is for the parents and staff they do not have the right to see someone else’s medical notes. A lot of work will have been going on behind the scenes they won’t know about and maybe the police communication should have been better.

There is a reason relatives and loved ones aren’t involved in the justice system - their grief clouds and distorts their reasoning. They want the person who has caused them so much pain to suffer. So it is not surprising they are angry.

EEG’s show evidence of seizures up to 48 hours after the event, and if no evidence at the time, a sleep deprived EEG will show epilepsy related markers. There is also a blood test which can detect seizure markers in the form of raised immune responses. I don’t think that the fact no witnesses saw any evidence of post seizure confusion means very much, as if it was an absence seizure of a few seconds there would be little after effect. I think the fact that this wasn’t followed up was probably an indication that there was medical evidence pointing to a seizure.

This.

Do those vigorously defending the driver believe that she should be able to drive again, should no further seizures take place for the legal period of time?