to make complaint about ticket inspector who detained child and took their phone?

[SmellsLikeTeenSpirits]

15 yo DD bought wrong train ticket today. She got off at stop after the one she'd bought ticket for because of a last minute change of plan with her friends. So a £2.70 journey rather than a £3 one.

At the final destination her and her friend were stopped by ticket inspector. They tried to explain what had happened and pay the excess. He wasn't having any of it. I can kind of sympathise with that.

What I would like your view on / experience of is this:

He detained them for 20 minutes. DD called me and was a bit shaken. I heard him say - you can't talk to your mum now - and then her phone went off. I tried calling and she messaged saying she'd call back in 5. He took her phone off her and went through her apps to try and prove she was over 15 (she looks 16 maybe - no older). In the end he accepted that she was in fact 15 and has written on the fine notice that he verified her age through her Vinted app. DD said she felt really uncomfortable as he went through her vinted page (where she is modelling some crop tops etc) and scrolled through the pictures. I got through to her again on the phone and asked her to put him on the phone but he refused.

Eventually he gave her a fine of £52 and let her go on her way.

Is this acceptable? Am I being unreasonable if I complain. I don't feel that an adult man should be detaining 15 year olds and confiscating their phones? She had the wrong ticket - just issue the fine if you need to?? Or am i being unreasonable - not having correct ticket is a crime - suck it up - the guy was just doing his job?

“The number of people finger wagging over the girl having photos on Vinted is unreal.

Can people not see the huge violation and sexual threat in a grown man in a position of authority taking a teenage girl's phone, clicking through her personal apps, entering her personal Vinted account on her phone and then scrolling through pictures of her bare stomach in front of her while he's denying her the right to speak to her mother and detaining her? This is not comparable to any other use of those photos, even by online creeps. She doesn't need a lecture about it. She could never, ever have foreseen that a man would do this and it isn't her fault. Would she be similarly to blame if he'd been scrolling through her private photos of her and friends at the beach in bikinis? Would it be her fault for having those on her phone too?”

I was going to post similar but you’ve summed this up perfectly - especially comparing it to bikini photos on the beach.

I’m surprised that other posters don’t see the situation in this way.

I think the way this ticket inspector behaved was appalling and he abused his authority. I hope OP complains and he faces disciplinary action.

I can understand train companies giving large fines if people travel without tickets or knowingly buy a much cheaper ticket and travel further but the fine should be in proportion and £52 for 30p is ridiculous when OP’s daughter had bought a ticket. Younger people travelling can easily make mistakes and buy the wrong tickets or miss stops as well so it’s wrong to automatically treat them like criminals and try to scare them.

I’d say that she wouldn’t have had the same treatment as an adult but I once fell asleep on the last train home and missed my stop and ended up 20 miles in the wrong direction. I had been visiting my mum in hospital when she had cancer and was emotional and not getting much sleep. I was in tears and panicking about getting home and the ticket inspector was so nasty and shouted at me and told me to “stop the crocodile tears” and gave me a fine.

Interestingly my partner made a few mistakes travelling by train when he moved to the country and didn’t speak much English and he was never treated this way, bullies seem to stick to targeting women and children.

I agree it would be unacceptable if he took her phone without consent and scrolled through her apps and photos.

But I can't shake the feeling that dd offered the phone/app to prove she was 15 and should be processed as a child.

She has been the victim of over zealous (less sympathetic) ticket enforcers previously though, and when I spoke to the staff at the local station they told me they were often shocked by their heavy handedness and inconsistency too , but the enforcement branch is outsourced and they have no control over them.

They may be outsourced, but they are still representing the train company - most people won't know they're not actually GWR or SWR or whoever's employees. I can't believe they didn't put anything about appropriate behaviour, behaving legally and proportionately in the contract and not bringing either company into disrepute. I don't believe they have no control.

I'm also surprised at Vinted being seen as suitable as age verification. It's not like anyone has ever lied about their age online. Still, it seems to have worked in the OP's favourite this time, at least in terms of age. She should not have been intimidated or her phone taken either.

Perhaps he wouldn't have been asking an adult to prove that they were a child?

I wonder how often you travel on a train. The ticket inspectors (not guards) are recruited and trained to be intimidating. I am pretty sure they would treat a young girl like this because I have witnessed how they've treated young lads, and lets face it, they will treat girls worse.

So the inspector grabbed her phone demanded her password and then thought of looking at Vinted to prove her age all on his own? No input from the daughter at all?

I suspect there are key facts being left out here.

He doesn’t have the right to take her phone, go through it and so on. Whether she has Vinted and is modelling the clothes she is selling is absolutely nothing to do with it. He should have fined her and let her on her way. She is a minor in the eyes of the law. Complain he has overstepped the mark and what’s to stop him going further. A lesson is always carry ID but he is not the police and he can’t take her phone.

How do you know this? Why are you so desperate to accuse a random young person of lying? It’s weird. Some MNers couldn’t possibly believe that a teenager is telling the truth and an adult might be < shock horror > wrong!
How on earth are children and young people meant to trust adults if they practically seek delight in assuming lies?!

Yeah, I'd be livid! Absolutely take this further!

These sub contractors ( that's what they are) are an absolute disgrace. Please do report. They think they are police. Absolute boils my piss when this happens. They have as much powers as a dinner lady. Please everyone tell your kids they have zero authority and to film them. Outrageous.

Similar happened to my daughter at similar age she wrote to them in her best fountain pen a whole side of A4 explaining she was under 18 and it was a genuine error, a friend asked her to go back to theirs in next zone and it didn't occur to her it would cost more. Fine was quashed.Letter of apology sent.

Precisely. Why are you letting a 15 year old wear crop tops or model them? If it’s not a concern to you then why is a ticket inspector an issue? How do you know she’s not exaggerating to get sympathy after a £52 fine?

He doesn’t have the legal authority to prevent people from making phone calls or to confiscate a phone and he had no consent to go through her phone - which is illegal. She’s a child. He’s a jobsworth and overstepped his authority. Report him.

Absolutely I'd complain. If she's explained what happened and offered to pay the difference for her ticket that should have been an easy resolution then and there. There's plenty of times where I've got on the train and not had a conductor reach me to pay until I got to my stop and then had to pay at the station. Never been accused of trying to free load a ride so my guess is he was on a bit of a power trip because they were young and unaccompanied and he could. He had no right to go through her phone and access her personal data that's totally inappropriate. Her ringing an adult for help shouldn't have been stopped either. I run a service that a number of kids have to access via train and its amazing the number of difficult conductors they have to deal with who immediately change their tune when I get involved. I'm sure they deal with lots of challenging teenagers at times but this is unacceptable.

Report him

Very simple, she explained in detail how it happened, what the member of staff said to her. How she wasn't able to ring a parent, and surely as she was a minor should not have been detained without a parent

A grown ass man intimidating a 15 year old and you think its acceptable shame on you!!!

That is abuse of power. Gross misconduct as major breach of GDPR on top!!! Complain do not be fobbed off get him sacked and demand to see his dbs certificate! As we would need one interacting with chidren without a chaperone or appropriate adult!

Please report this. Staff should NOT be detaining and manhandling personal belongings. I would also charge test the fine as the reason is incorrect so it's not valid kas long as she can prove she had a ticket). The fine reason needs to be correct

It’s not a concern to OP because it’s it’s simply her daughter taking a photo wearing something she’s selling on Vinted, not Only Fans FFS !! It’s purely to illustrate the garment and aid the sale. It’s a concern if the ticket inspector spent an inordinate amount of time going through the photos because he didn’t need to - all he needed was access to the account to verify her age.

TFL are very strong on enforcement now and often proceed to prosecution. People would be amazed to know how many cases go to court. I suspect the enforcement officers may have to work to targets too increasing the pressure but this is an assumption on my part, I do not know if this is true. However a TFL enforcement officer has no legal authority to take a personal phone or search an individual especially a minor to obtain proof of identity. They are able to ask for proof of ticket or request payment of outstanding fare. They are also entitled to ask for name and address and it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for proof of identity. It is the case that in a large number of cases they are provided with incorrect information as you can imagine. If they want to detain and question anyone over and above the above they should call a police officer or TfL police officer to deal with the matter. Obviously a minor most definitely needs an adult to support them too if things escalate to this position. It seems it was a genuine mistake from your OP and they should in my view have been given the opportunity to make up the difference and leave it at that. They do not have the authority to seize someone's phone or anything else without permission at the very least. The good news is they all wear body cameras so if you wish to make a complaint I would raise the complaint in writing and ask to see the recording and set out your concerns and what took place. It may be that the tone and language he used with your daughter was intimidating and made her feel she had no choice but to hand over her phone. I suggest you let her know that you are making a complaint before you proceed just in case there is more to what happened. I am not suggesting for a minute this is the case as I know these officer can be far too heavy handed and exceed their legal powers. However, I have seen the other side too where perhaps things have escalated because people including minors don't comply with their requests. . If it's as your DD stated and he did exceed his powers or intimidate her I hope you take this up formally as they should not be intimidating anyone let alone a minor. It would have been very frightening for her. Please explain to her for future reference as many people are not aware, that not paying, under paying or travelling without a ticket on public transport falls under the category of dishonesty in the courts and if prosecuted is extremely serious as it shows up on DBS checks etc so someone in financial services or someone who wants a career that needs a DBS for example would find themselves with real problems. I mention this only because many people are unaware of this and find themselves in court with a criminal conviction which affects their lives for a number of years over a trivial issue like this. I hope you sort things out and please explain to her how such a minor issue can quickly escalate and cause her real issues as I'm sure she didn't realise this could happen. I hope it gets sorted.