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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to make complaint about ticket inspector who detained child and took their phone?

342 replies

SmellsLikeTeenSpirits · 04/07/2024 23:45

15 yo DD bought wrong train ticket today. She got off at stop after the one she'd bought ticket for because of a last minute change of plan with her friends. So a £2.70 journey rather than a £3 one.

At the final destination her and her friend were stopped by ticket inspector. They tried to explain what had happened and pay the excess. He wasn't having any of it. I can kind of sympathise with that.

What I would like your view on / experience of is this:

He detained them for 20 minutes. DD called me and was a bit shaken. I heard him say - you can't talk to your mum now - and then her phone went off. I tried calling and she messaged saying she'd call back in 5. He took her phone off her and went through her apps to try and prove she was over 15 (she looks 16 maybe - no older). In the end he accepted that she was in fact 15 and has written on the fine notice that he verified her age through her Vinted app. DD said she felt really uncomfortable as he went through her vinted page (where she is modelling some crop tops etc) and scrolled through the pictures. I got through to her again on the phone and asked her to put him on the phone but he refused.

Eventually he gave her a fine of £52 and let her go on her way.

Is this acceptable? Am I being unreasonable if I complain. I don't feel that an adult man should be detaining 15 year olds and confiscating their phones? She had the wrong ticket - just issue the fine if you need to?? Or am i being unreasonable - not having correct ticket is a crime - suck it up - the guy was just doing his job?

OP posts:
Greydays10 · 05/07/2024 10:46

Absolutely report and in your place I would be taking your daughter to report it to the police.
Power hungry bully, intimidating a young girl.
Ignore the usual nasty responses on MN.
Absolutely report this.
I would be furious at her property being taken from her.

DancingNotDrowning · 05/07/2024 10:54

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Wtf?!

give it a rest eh? Your take a break style detective skills are really boring

and shit

Projectme · 05/07/2024 10:57

nah, he massively overstepped the mark. Complain to the CEO. I wonder if he'd have done the same to a strapping 6' lad! I think we know the answer to that.

DancingNotDrowning · 05/07/2024 10:58

in the circumstances you describe he has no more authority to detain your daughter and seize her phone than a random man on the street.

complain and complain loudly. It’s totally unacceptable.

MothralovesGojira · 05/07/2024 10:58

@SmellsLikeTeenSpirits
Ok, first things first - legally a TI can stop children and 'hold' them while checking their age & confirming details like an address. It doesn't matter what box is ticked on the penalty notice - it's still valid. By travelling beyond their ticket an offence has been committed and a penalty notice is payable etc as per railway bylaws.

Now, what is definitely wrong and potentially illegal is the way the TI conducted himself.
He can not stop anyone making a call - he can ask someone to terminate the call but there's nothing a TI can do if the request is refused.
Neither can a TI stop someone from answering their phone - again they can ask for the person to not take it but there's nothing a TI can do if a person refuses.
A TI can not take someone's phone off them and withhold it while searching the phone. They should definitely not be looking through the phone unless asked by the person stopped. Permission should be explicitly sought to view anything other than the ticket (which can/will be photographed).
If someone presents themselves as a minor then they must be treated as such unless it is very obvious that they are not - such as a person in mid-twenties pretending to be 14 for example.
At no point should a minor's request to speak to a parent be refused unreasonably - particularly if a parent can provide proof of age or the child is distressed etc.

Please report this incident today and make an official complaint so that CCTV footage can be retrieved etc as quickly as possible. This individual is abusing his 'power' at worst and needs retraining at best. My friend works in train revenue for a different company and says that the TI's behaviour is very wrong if your DD's account of the encounter is correct (sorry have to add that just in case but her account/witnesses should bear out as true from what you have related here).

Thistoo2023 · 05/07/2024 10:59

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Christ I’ve never seen anyone so over-invested in a thread. Grilling the OP like you’re heading up some sort of parliamentary inquiry. Get a grip!

kittensinthekitchen · 05/07/2024 11:03

SmellsLikeTeenSpirits · 05/07/2024 08:13

DD was at the station not on the train. And I do believe her as (a) I heard him tell her she couldn’t talk to me (b) I heard him refuse to talk with me so I could verify age (c) I have the carbon copy of the fine where he has written ‘vinted’ as age verification. He’s also ticked ‘no ticket’ on the form rather than the ‘travel beyond validity’ box. Also DD is not a liar generally - she’s a crier if you know what I mean.

Show quote history

Apologies, I thought ticket inspectors were the conductors on the train that check your ticket when you travel.

If you believe she was treated unfairly then definitely contact the rail company - do most rail staff now wear body-cams?

PorridgeEater · 05/07/2024 11:04

As others have said, definitely report the inspector - his behaviour was far worse than hers.

Churchofthepoisonivy · 05/07/2024 11:05

Greydays10 · 05/07/2024 10:46

Absolutely report and in your place I would be taking your daughter to report it to the police.
Power hungry bully, intimidating a young girl.
Ignore the usual nasty responses on MN.
Absolutely report this.
I would be furious at her property being taken from her.

so would I 100% !

Combattingthemoaners · 05/07/2024 11:17

Really weird and he’s clearly on a power trip! I’d report him. What happens if he had come across something indecent?

Dubuem · 05/07/2024 11:22

It made me feel really uncomfortable for your daughter reading this. It raises so many red flags, I'd definitely report it. He's even lied/made a mistake on the fine report. Do you have your daughter's original ticket still?

lemonmeringueno3 · 05/07/2024 11:23

"here you have to give your name and address - if not they call the police. If you give it you get a fine, and if you can go to the local ticket office within 2 weeks and prove your age, that you had a valid ticket, etc, it is cancelled."

Isn't that what she was trying to avoid, the police, by proving she was under 16? Presumably she chose to show him her Vinted app as proof.

grungey · 05/07/2024 11:24

@faceid81 your level of scrutiny of these events is bloody weird, you sound obsessed

Drfosters · 05/07/2024 11:59

diddl · 05/07/2024 10:09

Sounds as if he was very heavy handed.

That said, your daughter took a risk & it didn't pay off.

I suppose I'm a rule follower but no way would I have deliberately travelled onto the next station.

If there was a chance of travelling to the next stop then "for the sake of 30p" she might as well have got the ticket to there.

I don’t see it as taking a risk. She is 15 with a group of friends . It is always better for teenagers to stick together. For her to have to get off on her own, buy another ticket and have to wait for the next train is ridiculous. It is 30p. She was perfectly prepared to pay at the other end- what difference did it honestly make whether she paid at the start or end of the journey? . Plans change . There used to be guards who could sell tickets on a train. Not all children have bank cards they can use on a phone to be able to buy a ticket so they are at a disadvantage to adults. I strongly believe that once a child gets on a train the train company assumes a duty of care to the child. Therefore a degree of leniency is expected. In this instance she had a ticket but was 30p short on the fare. She should have been allowed to had paid it and given the benefit of the doubt and told to carry ID for next time as she may get stopped again.

Drfosters · 05/07/2024 12:03

i should add some trains do have conductors- I got caught out recently when tapping in on oyster but didn’t realise I could not tap out at the station I was going to as out of zone and I was going somewhere I had never been. So I didn’t have a valid ticket at the point whilst on the train. My mistake 100% - it didn’t even occur to me. So what did he do? He sold me the ticket on the train and then walked off. No bother. No fine. That is how it should be.

MothralovesGojira · 05/07/2024 12:04

@Dubuem
It is of no consequence about which box is ticked as both are correct.

BashfulClam · 05/07/2024 12:04

As she is close to 16 proof of age ID would be good. I am tall and a conductress on a bus 30 years ago tried to get me to buy an adult ticket and was really horrible and aggressive and threw me off. I had to walk 5 miles at night in a dodgy area in the rain at 14. My mum was absolutely raging. She called the bus garage and went through them. A few weeks later I was on the bus with my mum and it was the same conductress. My mum had her shaking and made her apologise. Mum is a tiny woman but she is not to be messed with. After that I always carried proof of my age and had to use it quite often. As a PP said a picture of her passport might be enough.

pikkumyy77 · 05/07/2024 12:07

lemonmeringueno3 · 05/07/2024 09:25

I wouldn't 'drive over' myself.

To complain that they stopped a fare dodger, that they issued a fine, that they treated her like an adult until she could prove she was 15, that he looked at the app she showed him?

Just feels like middle class 'how dare you stop someone like us' to me.

I'm sure it was unpleasant and she was worried, that his brusque manner was different to what she's used to at home or at school, but lesson learnt really - get off at the stop you paid to get off at.

What is wrong with you people? How eager are you to see a young girl frightened, humiliated, and her privacy invaded by a ticket inspector over 30 p.?

As for the crack about middle class mothers? If they do it to middle class white girls they are strip searching and arresting black women and girls. Show some courage snd solidarity why don’t you?

The right thing is to make a fuss: report, go in person, make s noise. On behalf of your dd but also all female passengers..

The behavior of seizing and going through the phone was very concerning. If he had found something more compromising—or something like sexts between her and the boy—I think the whole incident could have been even more serious as he could have tried to further bulky, blackmail, or assault them.

1offnamechange · 05/07/2024 12:11

The whole vinted thing is really weird
Firstly it's not very good "proof" of age as she could put anything down.

But more importantly why did he need to establish her age anyway? Her "crime" was travelling when she technically didn't have a ticket (as the journey she had paid for had ended and she stayed on for an extra stop), not buying a child's ticket when she should have bought an adults one for the journey she did pay for!

The £50 fine for travelling without a ticket is the same for everyone so why did he need to know her age at all?

I'm sure if she was a big burly 40 year old man a) the ticket collector wouldn't have gone ott for 30 fucking p anyway and b) he wouldn't then have diverged into checking other, completely irrelevant parts of his identify!

MothralovesGojira · 05/07/2024 12:21

@Drfosters
In a perfect world everyone would get this response but do you know how much the service operators are losing every month through people deliberately avoiding fares or not paying the correct fare? It is millions. Some of it is honest mistakes like yours but the majority is people not paying, using discounts that they don't have (rail cards etc) and sandwich ticketing.
You were lucky that a conductor checked your ticket and not a TI because that would have cost you loads had you have been stopped at the station.

MintsPi · 05/07/2024 12:24

Definitely complain. Ticket inspectors are the biggest jobsworths I have ever encountered. I have seen them shout at people until they have been in tears and one barrier inspector grabbed my 10 year old when I swiped her through the barrier as he thought it wasnt using her ticket. I don't use trains anymore. They are not worth the hassle.

PuddlesPityParty · 05/07/2024 12:35

lemonmeringueno3 · 05/07/2024 09:25

I wouldn't 'drive over' myself.

To complain that they stopped a fare dodger, that they issued a fine, that they treated her like an adult until she could prove she was 15, that he looked at the app she showed him?

Just feels like middle class 'how dare you stop someone like us' to me.

I'm sure it was unpleasant and she was worried, that his brusque manner was different to what she's used to at home or at school, but lesson learnt really - get off at the stop you paid to get off at.

Hardly treated her like an adult by taking her phone and looking through her apps! Super odd you’re defending that behaviour

Drfosters · 05/07/2024 12:41

MothralovesGojira · 05/07/2024 12:21

@Drfosters
In a perfect world everyone would get this response but do you know how much the service operators are losing every month through people deliberately avoiding fares or not paying the correct fare? It is millions. Some of it is honest mistakes like yours but the majority is people not paying, using discounts that they don't have (rail cards etc) and sandwich ticketing.
You were lucky that a conductor checked your ticket and not a TI because that would have cost you loads had you have been stopped at the station.

I agree and I’d have taken the punishment (although I think it should have been clearer at the point I tapped in) but the fact is I had gone through a barrier to get in and tapped in so there was a clear intent to pay. There was a barrier at the other end so I could not have got out without it. Barriers act as the control in this situation. I appreciate not all stations have them but where they do exist they are the control to ensure people pay the correct fare. Of course if someone has zero ticket then that is completely different (or shown a clear intent to deceive) and they should take the punishment . In the OPs case, there was a ticket. Her DD made a reasonable decision to stay with her friends. She offered to pay the difference at the other end. Her friends all proved they were 15. There was absolutely no evidence of an attempt to deceive. The heavy handed response was disproportionate to the offence.

FakeMiddleton · 05/07/2024 12:46

Wtaf!

Even the actual police can't do what he did.

I'd be stopping at nothing until that man was fired and possibly dragged up on any criminal charge I could have him on.

FakeMiddleton · 05/07/2024 12:47

Hankunamatata · 04/07/2024 23:57

Pretty sure he isn't allowed to go through her phone. Surely he should have just wrote the fine and given it to her without all the phone checking

No, he isn't allowed to do this. Even the police need something like reasonable suspicion that you are a terrorist/threat to immediate safety to do this (think it's PACE)