Jane mntter thread 2 :Jane from london tackles keir.

[JaneV1984Madness]

Just incase anyone wanted to carry on what I found was an extremely illuminating discussion.

I think Jane made her point very well, although to be honest I’m a bit lost on what the solution for all of this is.

I want to protect women’s spaces and make sure women feel safe in changing rooms / toilets etc etc.

But then what happens with transwomen? Where do they go?

If a man wants to make women feel uncomfortable, or to even attack them, they don’t need to dress as a woman to do so. It happens every single day in this country and others.

I’m not trying to anger anyone, genuinely. I just don’t think I understand the solution here.

Transwomen are men.

If a man wants to make women feel uncomfortable, or to even attack them, they don’t need to dress as a woman to do so

No, they don't need to dress as anything.

I don't mind what clothes someone who is in a woman's shelter with me wears but I care if they are a man.

I don’t understand how this helps. You can say they’re men, they can say they feel like women. The issue still stands, doesn’t it?

Transwomen are men, no getting away from this fact. However they feel or like to dress, they should not be able to access women's spaces and sports etc. They are men.

That said I would suggest that the solution is that they should campaign for safer and more inclusive men's toilets/spaces or separate third spaces/events. It's not womens problem to solve for them.

This. ^

They can say what they like. They remain men. They can use men's spaces.

If a man wants to make women feel uncomfortable, or to even attack them, they don’t need to dress as a woman to do so. It happens every single day in this country and others.

Yes, but we're not just talking about full-on psychopaths who would just attack a woman anywhere. Think how many more men might take the chance to go in and have a bit of fun looking at women and girls in changing rooms and toilets if they were given carte blanche to do so any time they wanted. Either by just being willing to say they identify as a woman, or by just relying on the fact that women know there's no point in challenging them, because any man might have a GRC.

But then what happens with transwomen? Where do they go?

@FrogFreg They go into the men's spaces. Because that's what they are.

I just don’t think I understand the solution here

That's not women's problem to solve though. Why do we need to find a solution to where they can go?

Not in my prison cell with me or in my 100m race.

Exactly.

This isn't a problem females should be asked to resolve.

If TW feel unsafe with other men then that's where they need to direct their attention.

Instead of PR berating women re: single sex spaces what about campaigning against men who are unaccepting of TW in male spaces?

But they don't. Why?

Because they want access to women's spaces not because of safety but because they get a kick out of being there.

Even (sometimes especially) because they know they are not wanted.

Men who want to access single sex spaces for their own validation and kicks are exactly a member of a cohort that should not be allowed to do so.

Transwomen are men.
"Feeling like" something doesn't magically turn you into that special something. Even if they are wearing lots of makeup, high heels, a swishy dress and have long hair, they are still men.

They should use the men's facilities- if other men have a problem with that, that is not women's problem to solve.
Why can't they campaign to widen the bandwidth of "being a male human"?

If they (as a group) want to campaign for that or for a third unisex provision, then I'm sure lots of us will support them.

I am sick and tired of men putting the responsibility for all of their issues on women.

Spend 5 minutes on any feminist TikTok account and all the comments are men saying that women are directly responsible for men's suicide rates.

Actually no, how about you stop treating your spouse's and girlfriends like they are therapists and seek professional help.

They state the most absurd "facts" and live in this wildly delusional mindset.

Then, you have men with these ideals deciding "hey, I think I'm a woman"... and they take all of that misogyny and are able to direct it at actual women with a free pass.

They aren't called incels when they're wearing a dress.

They can't be sexist because "they're women too"... right?

And because the reality is that they have so much resentment and hatred for women built up, they want to do everything they can to strip us of our dignity and safe places.

They know that prancing around changing rooms and infiltrating rape crisis services is such a strong way to make us feel scared and gross.

This turns them on. They enjoy our discomfort.

And because the world is set up to pander to men and their needs (in literally every aspect like medical funding for example) they are able to get away with it and receive support.

The ONLY solution is a third space being made available for them.
Or, making it so there is a woman's space and then an "other" space, for trans identifying people and men (since they don't seem to see why we are concerned.

Let them deal with these mentally ill individuals and leave us alone!

Our rights are literally being stripped away from us across the western world and it is terrifying because we are watching it happen with seemingly no power to stop it.

Sorry for the rant... I am very passionate about this due to a history of sexual abuse and assault and that makes me so aware of the need for spaces without men.

I have also been cornered in a post office by a trans "woman" who lifted up his dress and revealed his lacy very see-through underwear and penis to me.

It was horrible and so many of them are like this.

Men need to grow up and sort their own problems out.

Women do not exist to enable their fetishes.

I think imagine what men who are like Jimmy Savile, would do with this legislation, exploit it for their own pure predatory gains.

On another thread there were interesting links about some daughters of transitioning men, it all seemed to be festish based and some of these men also spoke to the or daughters in an inappropriate way...

The daughter had written to parliament about it.

Women are not support humans for men who think they are women. Nor are we shields for them to protect them from other men.
They need to sort out their own shit, just as women have done.
I don't care where poor transwomen go. They don't care about using spaces not made for them and making women uncomfortable, so why should I care where they go?
Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Man up, literally, and find a solution that does not involve invading female single sex spaces.

But then what happens with transwomen? Where do they go?

Ask yourself why this is a problem for women to solve?

Is it reasonable to make all women less safe in order to make a few men feel safer?

Yes I'm sure men can carve out their own spaces for create the 3rd way.

But then what happens with transwomen? Where do they go?

I DGAF as long as they’re not in women’s single sex spaces or in women’s sports. They’re men, they can go in with the other men or they can campaign for their own safe spaces. I don’t want them in ours, any more than I’d welcome any man in ours.

But they're not.

We can't all do round affirming people's delusions, can we?

Educate males (and politicians of both sexes) that is doesn't matter what someone is wearing - all those born male belong in male loos/changing rooms/sport/prisons etc whatever their attire. Why on earth should wearing a dress be the key to girls' and women's loos/changing rooms/sport/prisons etc.

So the answer is that transwomen use male facilities etc because - gulp - they are male (and no amount of surgery will alter this biological fact).

We have no one at the door yet canvassing from any party.

What is it with all the handmaids so eager to pander to this?

They forget in all this pious handwringing and cries of ‘oh but will anyone think of the poor transwomen…’ that most of them are fully intact men. And men with a very misogynist worldview.

But yeah, let’s fret about them eh? Who gives a shit about girls and women…🙄

I've just seen this on sky news, apparently KS won't let biological males into women's spaces. He's so slippery, I don't believe him.

Sorry I can't link to the article but here's a screenshot.

Yes, he's been so weak on this and prevaricated so much that nobody trusts him.

If what he says is true then he must commit to repealing the GRA.