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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that men aren't that special and most are pretty average?

48 replies

orlawoolf · 30/06/2024 15:19

When I was in my late teens and in my early twenties men seemed so important in a way. I think I was very preoccupied with finding the love of my life and as a result I'd project so much onto random men. I so wanted them to like me, to find me attractive or to love me. Probably not much of this was apparent as I was also very shy and so mostly I was always analysing our interactions looking for signs they might like me or if I felt like they didn't I'd be beating myself up for being uncool, saying something stupid or being too fat and ugly when I was none of those things except maybe a bit stupid! I always thought that I needed to be thinner to be loved so I was always trying to get down from a size 12 to a size 8 and my motivation was always about being more attractive to men.

Now I look back on that time and I am just amazed that I put these men on such a pedestal! Some were nice enough men but still just average blokes but others were pretty awful with drug habits, had never worked, didn't wash or were just unkind people. I don't know why but some part of me just felt like a man was the answer, like they had some secret to life and that I just had to find the right man to learn it. I just wish I could go back and tell younger me to give it rest and just forget about men for a bit.

Even male friends I've known for years I used to think they were so cool and clever but now its like I see them for what they are just average men with a bit of an over inflated ego turning into grumpy middle aged blokes.

I am married now, to a man I thankfully met when I was a lot more emotionally mature and it is a happy marriage so I don't hate men but I don't think they are that special or important either and I do wish I had not put such stock in them and their opinions of me or anything else for that matter during my younger years, I could had so much more fun! I probably had very low self esteem at that age and was always looking for approval but I think it was to some extent cultural as well.

OP posts:
DiscontentedPig · 30/06/2024 15:34

Well, there are eight billion of us, so unless you're really exceptionally good at something, there are probably thousands of people who can do it better. The trick is to accept this, in yourself and in other people.

shearwater2 · 30/06/2024 15:36

Yes. Hormones are great aren't they? Once they settle down, the scales soon fall from your eyes 😁

Boobettes · 30/06/2024 15:37

I am married now, to a man

Easy to say then isn't it?

It's a bit like saying houses aren't that special, from your fully heated comfortable house.

Boxina · 30/06/2024 15:39

This is why I'm teaching my daughter that there are so many more important things in life than being in a relationship.

orlawoolf · 30/06/2024 15:39

@shearwater2 I suppose hormones are to blame, I did have a friend when I was doing my post grad and she was the coolest, smartest most sorted woman I knew back then but I still remember her pussyfooting round her boyfriend at the time so as not to upset him, to keep him happy. So yeah hormones!

@Boobettes Well I did get to some version of this position before I met my DH.

OP posts:
Youdontevengohere · 30/06/2024 15:41

I agree 100% OP.

orlawoolf · 30/06/2024 15:41

@Boxina I think my parents also told me that as well but it doesn't always play out like that in real life, I doubt they even know what I was getting up to as I was away at university. However I do think the culture is different now and young women are less likely to idealise men or I would hope.

OP posts:
Tulipvase · 30/06/2024 15:45

Surely that can be said about men and women?

KreedKafer · 30/06/2024 15:46

Most people are ‘average’. That’s basically what ‘average’ means! Most women, most men and most kids are not exceptional people.

It would also be weird if you met loads of men that were perfect for you. You kind of sum it up yourself when you say that you were desperate for a boyfriend and therefore put men on a pedestal. You were dating people who weren’t right for you and then being disappointed when they didn’t live up to your projection, that’s all. When you say ‘most men are pretty average’ you really mean ‘most men aren’t my ideal partner’ which is a very different thing.

Here’s the thing: however much you love your husband, plenty of women would definitely think he was nothing special either. He’s right for you, which is great - congratulations on finding each other! But everyone’s different. I adore my DP; he’s absolutely perfect for me and I thank my lucky stars that our paths ever crossed. But I’m sure plenty of people wouldn’t see the attraction.

taxguru · 30/06/2024 15:47

Culture and upbringing plays an enormous part. Girls are constantly given the message that how they look and how they dress is important, right from the earliest days of dressing up in party frocks, spending hours doing their hair with Mummy, etc. It sets a backdrop. Then in early teens, it's not just hormones, it's peer pressure, when all their school friends are pairing off with boyfriends, so they're under pressure to have a boyfriend at too young an age when they probably don't actually want/need one, but don't want to be odd one out. That's where it becomes "any" boy who'll ask them out, rather than a "special boy" who they actually want to go out with. Just low standards, far too often. It takes a while and usually a few bad experiences for them to realise that they don't actually "need" a male after all, or if they do, then they can have one on their terms.

bragpuss · 30/06/2024 15:48

If an alien read MN they must surely think men are like some kind of drug for women. Hate them but can't keep away from them

orlawoolf · 30/06/2024 15:48

@taxguru I agree with you it is deeply cultural whereas I think for men or boys it is more about access to sex and women's bodies as opposed to thinking girls are that important or special as individuals. I don't think it is the same or women and men at all.

OP posts:
MasterBeth · 30/06/2024 15:49

Yes, the average man is pretty average. Not sure this is the revelation you think it is.

orlawoolf · 30/06/2024 15:49

bragpuss · 30/06/2024 15:48

If an alien read MN they must surely think men are like some kind of drug for women. Hate them but can't keep away from them

They probably were for me, I think it was where I got a lot of my self worth from when I was very young. I did mature out of it thankfully.

OP posts:
ConsuelaHammock · 30/06/2024 15:50

It’s fairytales and all the princess happily ever after shite that we ram down young girls’ throats.
Frozen was released when my daughter was about 7/8, she leaned over to me and whispered
‘She only JUST MET HIM!’ You go girl!

paidbythejob · 30/06/2024 15:50

I remember idealising romance, but I don't believe I put men in general on any sort of pedestal. It was obvious enough even as a teenager that most males I encountered were inferior to me, intellectually. 😅 I still daydreamed too much about falling in love and wanted the 'right' ones to notice me more than they ever did, but I didn't idealise the average male.

ConsuelaHammock · 30/06/2024 15:53

I used to get asked by a pervy uncle
’No man yet?’
Finally I snapped and said
‘Why would I make one man miserable when I can make lots happy!’
That wiped the smile off his Free Presbyterian face 😂

5128gap · 30/06/2024 15:53

Its easily done OP. Because it's not about the men being special, it's about what we are taught makes us as women special. In short, male attention and approval. So the time you spent trying to please these men was probably far more about reassuring yourself you were doing OK as a woman than about whether dull Dave was actually pleased. Because you're right, they're no more special than we are, but we've learned we're only as special as they think we are, and it takes a while to unlearn that. And now you have!

orlawoolf · 30/06/2024 15:54

@5128gap I love this, thank you it is exactly right and was worth posting just to read what you wrote here!

OP posts:
bragpuss · 30/06/2024 15:56

paidbythejob · 30/06/2024 15:50

I remember idealising romance, but I don't believe I put men in general on any sort of pedestal. It was obvious enough even as a teenager that most males I encountered were inferior to me, intellectually. 😅 I still daydreamed too much about falling in love and wanted the 'right' ones to notice me more than they ever did, but I didn't idealise the average male.

Edited

Of course, really we are talking about a small fraction, not all of them. I suppose the question then is not are the above average ones above average (because they are by definition) but are the above average one worthy of women's love and commitment?

bragpuss · 30/06/2024 16:01

5128gap · 30/06/2024 15:53

Its easily done OP. Because it's not about the men being special, it's about what we are taught makes us as women special. In short, male attention and approval. So the time you spent trying to please these men was probably far more about reassuring yourself you were doing OK as a woman than about whether dull Dave was actually pleased. Because you're right, they're no more special than we are, but we've learned we're only as special as they think we are, and it takes a while to unlearn that. And now you have!

I don't think anyone is teaching women that what matters is what dull men think of them. I think it may be hormonal and its focused on above average men and I think men obsess about the same thing

RedHelenB · 30/06/2024 16:04

MasterBeth · 30/06/2024 15:49

Yes, the average man is pretty average. Not sure this is the revelation you think it is.

This.

Agapornis · 30/06/2024 16:04

ConsuelaHammock · 30/06/2024 15:53

I used to get asked by a pervy uncle
’No man yet?’
Finally I snapped and said
‘Why would I make one man miserable when I can make lots happy!’
That wiped the smile off his Free Presbyterian face 😂

Lol I did similar to my BIL's religious parents
"So you've not met anyone yet?"
"There are so many options, why would I choose one?"
Grin

Newbutoldfather · 30/06/2024 16:07

People, on average, aren’t that special and the older we bet, the more we realise it.

Same for guys and women though. I am divorced now and can’t imagine ever having the love/lust excitement the way I did when I was young and a girlfriend was coming to visit or stay.

Hormones is a weird way of putting it as, on one level, obviously true. But, on another level, distilling all emotions down to their chemical precursors is a bit reductionist.

I remember my late mother telling me that getting old was about less strong feelings, not such bad lows but not such strong highs. I am kind of getting that now.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 30/06/2024 16:09

Well of course the majority of men are pretty average. The majority of people are pretty average. That's kind of the definition of 'average'! No need to put anyone on a pedestal anyway.