to think that men aren't that special and most are pretty average?

[orlawoolf]

When I was in my late teens and in my early twenties men seemed so important in a way. I think I was very preoccupied with finding the love of my life and as a result I'd project so much onto random men. I so wanted them to like me, to find me attractive or to love me. Probably not much of this was apparent as I was also very shy and so mostly I was always analysing our interactions looking for signs they might like me or if I felt like they didn't I'd be beating myself up for being uncool, saying something stupid or being too fat and ugly when I was none of those things except maybe a bit stupid! I always thought that I needed to be thinner to be loved so I was always trying to get down from a size 12 to a size 8 and my motivation was always about being more attractive to men.

Now I look back on that time and I am just amazed that I put these men on such a pedestal! Some were nice enough men but still just average blokes but others were pretty awful with drug habits, had never worked, didn't wash or were just unkind people. I don't know why but some part of me just felt like a man was the answer, like they had some secret to life and that I just had to find the right man to learn it. I just wish I could go back and tell younger me to give it rest and just forget about men for a bit.

Even male friends I've known for years I used to think they were so cool and clever but now its like I see them for what they are just average men with a bit of an over inflated ego turning into grumpy middle aged blokes.

I am married now, to a man I thankfully met when I was a lot more emotionally mature and it is a happy marriage so I don't hate men but I don't think they are that special or important either and I do wish I had not put such stock in them and their opinions of me or anything else for that matter during my younger years, I could had so much more fun! I probably had very low self esteem at that age and was always looking for approval but I think it was to some extent cultural as well.

😀

OP, are you saying you were brought up to put men on a pedestal and to think your worth was in whether you could bag a chap?! I mean, so was I, but it’s your responsibility to question the daft scripts you were brought up with.

My God, never has a more true thing been said on mumsnet. Also, with age, you realise how bloody fabulous the majority of women are.

You could pretty much extend this to people generally.

Also, with age, you realise how bloody fabulous the majority of women are.

Really? I think the majority of women are pretty average too. It would be odd if they weren't tbh.

@GlassofIce Not by my parents (more the opposite) but I think it was what society told me that my only value was in what a man thought of me, that combined with hormones and low self esteem did me in I think. Also I did question it and mature out of it by my mid 20's.

The average woman is probably more exceptional than the average man in my experience.

This is one of the joys of being 50. I truly think most men are underwhelming and they would be lucky to date me. I felt the same as you aged 18-28 op. Stupid oestrogen and social conditioning.

Spot on

@Boxina my mother ‘taught’ me that there was much more to life than attracting men. She was a fully committed feminist, read Germaine Greer etc. and belonged to feminist groups when that was a thing. It didn’t help me one bit. Just as the OP said, I spent my years between 12 and 30 (and probably beyond) preoccupied with my weight and what men thought of me. Of course, I was getting an education then, working on my career etc. I wasn’t dreaming of being a housewife or anything. But male opinion dominated my thoughts. It was in the culture, still is. You can tell your daughters whatever you like but they only need to go on TikTok for a few minutes and it’s there. The need to appeal to the male gaze.

I've met various men in my late 30s early 40s and I agree. Most are pretty crap tbh. They do the bare minimum, no self respect either asking to borrow money etc. Recently met someone who seemed perfectly OK on our 1st date but that didn't last

Most men age really badly as well. 'Men age better than women' is a total myth- promulgated by men most probably 😂

Biology is a wonderful thing!

I was brought up in a religious farming family. I questioned everything growing up and was always ‘the difficult one’. Quite proud of that label now. Prefer to call it ‘ takes no shit’!

Agreed I’m bang average at my best

I expect women think that they are better than men and vice versa. Means nothing surely without a reason beyond "in my experience" (clouded as anyone's experience would be).

Saying "I used to think men were great and now I don't" doesn't seem to add anything of substance.

I think men and women are generally more similar than they would admit.

Also if any women here were to have her life again with no memory of this one but by some chance in that moment of initial conception a Y gamete from her father fused with her mother's egg and she were to live her life as a man this time, would she act any differently than the men who populate this world?

I'd like to think that we're all special to someone.

Yeah turns out men are generally a huge disappointment sadly. But I was obsessed with them when I was young! I didn't need them to prop up my own self worth though I needed one to buy a house and have a family (eventually) with. I knew it was only going to get harder and harder as i got older to find someone good so it was a pretty full on search!

Now I realise I actually prefer women because 50 year old men are particularly shit.

You can't be surprised if most men are average.. That is the definition of average, after all.

I think my generation were trained to think like you, op.
When I was training to be a teacher, one of our lecturers commented about gender equality and expectations. Basically, whatever the male does ( in traditional roles) is seen as more important.

So the wife provides 21 varied meals a week. Every week. Childcare, housework, shopping and often holding down a job. This is taken for granted. The occasional "Thanks dear, where are my socks? from DH.
The DH, one Sunday morning, puts up a shelf he's been getting round to for 3 years.
Everything stops while the family dutifully admires it. By the afternoon, several of his mates come round and stand there drinking beer and praising him.
Come Christmas Day, he"s still pointing it out to visitors.
Important things, shelves.

100% this ^^ , I’m pretty sure if asked most men they would say that most women are pretty average

Agreed. Sometimes when I have a dark moment I take comfort not so much that I didn’t do what my upbringing intended me to, but more that I busted all my younger sisters out, too.

Sure, but boys aren’t in general raised to think that their worth is largely based on whether they can bag a woman.

I think the average woman is a damn sight better human being than the average man.

I too recognise what you say OP.

Post menopause I just think wtf were those frankly bonkers 30 odd hormonal years all about?