Signing a document for someone else

[Louise0923]

A family member is out of the country and wants to send me a document to sign for them. I then need to print off and send to their ex partner for them to sign. Family member wants my partner to witness.

My partner has refused and said it’s illegal. Family member is saying we are being selfish and unhelpful, and it’s not illegal if they’ve given us permission.

I really can’t find much online about signing something with someone’s permission. I think both I and partner are being over cautious, but family member is going through a very bad split with ex partner and they will know we’ve signed and witness on their behalf.

Any advice and thoughts? If it helps ex partner also refused to sign on family members behalf, family member lives abroad, but family member could absolutely sign it and send it by special delivery (I just think they don’t want to and it’s a faf finding somewhere to print).

Well your partner can't witness for a start. The witness needs to be an independent unrelated witness. Be being your partner they are not independent.

The family member needs to print the document off, sign it themselves, get it witnessed, then post it.

Their suggestion is illegal legal.

Unless you want to end up in court ?

Would you be signing as if you were them? Because yes that is fraud. Unless the form explicitly says can be signed on behalf of someone else - but I imagine it doesn't! The only legal way you can sign for someone else is with power of attorney but this is f the situation you're describing.

I mean I'm sure people do do stuff like this, and do t get caught. Personally I wouldn't - it is fraud and could render the entire document invalid.

What's the document? Presumably something relating to divorce, finances, property or children if it involves ex? In any of those cases I would still well clear of signing anything pretending to be someone else.

We totally agree! We’ve just been made out to be awful and unhelpful, and I’ve wasted time trying to google if we can and how we can. I can’t understand when people expect certain things from other people, trying to make their life easier whilst making ours more stressful!

Oh I see!

Had misunderstood your post.

I mean they are BU to ask you to and even more BU to get pissed when you won't!

I'm surprised they would want to risk invalidating the document given it's presumably important.

Yes I would be signing on their behalf and this is the exact debate I’ve had with them. I’ve had a lifetime of being expected to do things I’m not comfortable with to make their life easier, it makes me go on a huge guilt trip and feel unreasonable.

Yes- one of those documents which all parties agree on but I said it only takes [divorcees name] to decide to make trouble (not that they’re not a nice person but obviously divorces are difficult and cause people to act in certain ways) and we are all in court.

I wouldn’t do it but It’s not illegal to copy someone else’s signature with their express permission. However whether it would pass in a court of law is an entirely different matter. Given witnesses to the signature are also required I wouldn’t do it. Why can’t they just sign electronically?

So they're asking you to forge their signature? Well clearly that's fraud. Don't do it.

I sign on behalf of colleagues all the time and sign as me then put “pp John Smith” for example

It is only fraud if you forge their signature without their permission.

Why can't they sign it then send it to you?

You should be signing as
pp Pickle Melon
on behalf of John Smith

I think this is what they’re saying, people do it all the time!

I think because the post is a bit haphazard where they are, they always have to use special delivery and I’m not sure if they have a printer but their ex partner is saying they should come back to sort all this stuff out.

So it’s completely legal to sign on their behalf and have a witness say they’ve signed it?

If it’s not illegal why would it not be okay in a court of law? It has to be a wet signature!

Yes exactly this! But apparently people do it all the time and it’s not fraud if they give permission.

Yes but with pp you sign with your signature. That could be witnessed as they’ve signed as you. You can’t sign as them, as the witness would need to lie too.

Tell your Mum/Sister they need to come back from wherever they are and sign their own documents, and that you want nothing to do with it.

Don't let them bully you into doing something they shouldn't; if you did sign and they didn't like the ramifications, they could easily say they never authorised you to do so. There's absolutely no need for you to embroil yourself in their divorce, so don't!

Is there such a thing as writing PP and then their signature?

Tell family member to forward doc to the person and they can print it off and sign themselves???

Tell them they need to pay for you to get legal advice on whether you can do it and how. You will then decide and you will include a note with the document to the other side explaining what you have done.

And this is why you shouldn't ask legal advice from random internet strangers.

It must be illegal to copy someone's signature, permission or otherwise!
If you could sign on their behalf then you sign your own signature. It sounds dodgy AF.
Why do they need you to do this, when they have the document and a pen and working hands, presumably?

@Louise0923 You can't sign someone else's signature - that is fraud. You can sign your signature 'pp' someone else, but that's generally only done on letters/emails and certainly not allowed on a legal document - which I assume this is.

You can PP a letter from someone in an administrative capacity with their consent as long as their name is at the bottom but signing a legal document in their name/with their ‘signature’ would be fraud as other PPs have said. And agree that a witness needs to be independent .