Signing a document for someone else

[Louise0923]

A family member is out of the country and wants to send me a document to sign for them. I then need to print off and send to their ex partner for them to sign. Family member wants my partner to witness.

My partner has refused and said it’s illegal. Family member is saying we are being selfish and unhelpful, and it’s not illegal if they’ve given us permission.

I really can’t find much online about signing something with someone’s permission. I think both I and partner are being over cautious, but family member is going through a very bad split with ex partner and they will know we’ve signed and witness on their behalf.

Any advice and thoughts? If it helps ex partner also refused to sign on family members behalf, family member lives abroad, but family member could absolutely sign it and send it by special delivery (I just think they don’t want to and it’s a faf finding somewhere to print).

I googled It you can write PP and your signature...apparently uts legal. Check with citizens advice

If you PP then it’s your own signature above their name.

For goodness sake. This isn't a business letter to be pp'd. It's a legal document.

The person needs to sign the form and get it couriered here, if time is an issue.

It’s not illegal to copy their signature with their permission so you couldn’t be prosecuted for fraud. Whether it would be legally valid or not is another matter.

I'd be saying NO purely based on the fact that they called me 'selfish' and 'unhelpful' for not jumping through hoops for them.

It’s really not clear if they are asking OP to forge their signature or sign on their behalf, which are two different things.

I suppose forge rather than sign as myself and then say it’s on their behalf. Basically being sent their signature to replicate.

Of course someone else can't sign a legal document!
That is why you have an independent witness.

Now that really is heading for trouble.

And the witness is supposed to certify that they’ve seen the person sign it with their own hand, so they’d be implicated as well.

Sorry but this is stupid. If they are sending you the form by post, why can they not sign it , in front of a witness and then post it?
Of course you can't forge someones signature on a legal document

You can sign your own name and pp for the person who you are signing on behalf of. Often used to happen with secretaries and bosses, not sure how legal the document would be, but that would be the best I would offer. He could send a letter saying he is giving permission for you to pp on his behalf.

Just seen your most recent post; that's clear cut fraud. And your DH couldn't be a witness as he's your family member.

I PP letters at work on a regular basis.

I have never heard of anyone PPing on a legal document, like a lease or divorce etc.

I have signed as a witness at work on legal documents, but I am signing to say that I witnessed the person named in the document signing their own signature.

I am a bit confused about what you are being asked to do. But legal or not, if you don't want to do it, then don't.

EDIT - just seen your update. No, no, no! You can't forge their signature.

Think through the logic. Of course it isn't legal to sign someone else's name on a legal document with their 'consent'. How would the latter ever be proven was given without coercion?

Back to OP. Sounds like your friend/ relative is taking the piss and you for granted. I really hate it when people expect someone else to do something essentially dodgy to alleviate their inconvenience. Sounds like this person has made a habit of it - easier said than done, but perhaps it's time to draw a boundary here and now and say...no. (It's a complete sentence). Good luck x

The whole point of witnessing a signature is so that an independent witness can state that they saw the specified person sign the document at a particular time.

It really is and I’ve been learning to put boundaries in place but when you are being told this is ‘normal’ and your being unreasonable, and you care for them, it’s very hard to think rationally and not feel that guilt! Thank you for recognizing it!

It is not ok to sign someone else’s name and the PPing is misleading you.

Signing your relative’s name would be fraud

Your partner in witnessing you committing fraud would also commit fraud.

Say no and don’t engage further.

You can sign for them, if you have something like an LPA (my legal knowledge is a bit out of date so it might not be called that now)

A lot of places now accept electronic signatures so that could be an option for your relative, but I not sure how much of a faff it is to set it up, (less faff than a LPA)

I don't think this witness is related to the person abroad. The witness is the boyfriend or girlfriend of OP.

However, I this a witness has to sign in person.

Obviously can't sign someone else's name.