Anyone else wobbling about voting Labour?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

I’ve watched all the debates now and Starmer is so… wet. I don’t like him. The first thing he did when women’s rights were mentioned his first thought was men who ‘identify as women’ and how ‘marginalised’ they are. When asked about immigration he squirmed and squirmed before muttering about his role as DPP (who cares? We want to know what you plan to do NOW). When asked about his support for Corbyn he said ‘but I didn’t think we would actually win..’

There’s something about him which is making me very uncomfortable and I just have a bad feeling now about what would happen if he was leader.

Anyone else? If you’re not voting Tory or Labour, who are you voting for and why? I assumed I would vote Labour this time but my gut is suddenly screaming at me not to!

I hope history is as kind to him as he's been to Rosie Duffield.

"this is not a challenge Mr Blair it's a tragedy"

So glad the Tories have had fourteen years to make that better, I bet maternity care is in great shape now.

In the summer Are you showing this example so say it’s better under the Tories? my friend a midwife all her career has just left totally burnt out and disillusioned as she cannot offer any the level of “ care” to woman, she says she’s never seen midwife’s so desperate to leave as it’s been slashed to dangerous levels of staffing.
Doctors are striking and continue to strike, if you think the Health service is better under the Tories you’ve been living under a rock.

Oh no, I'm just pointing out that after labours long rule (this was towards the end) the underfunding crisis that was hitting maternity care.

Some posters where saying how wonderful it was under labour.

Headlines were daily under labour re maternity care crisis.

The SDP is Reform-lite in some ways, I'm afraid. It wants to take us out of the ECHR.

Well I couldn't vote Labour in the end. I know you vote for your local MP but it's very obviously linked to who will govern.

I like our Tory incumbent personally but can't vote for Rwanda (or Tory policies generally)

Labour - local candidate invisible, no leaflets, no noise and their candidate FB page irritated me. Plus Keir has been a huge disappointment to me as a long term Labour voter and so mealy mouthed and I sense an element of spite towards women which is weird (Diane Abbott, Rosie Duffield). I don't know what he stands for he has spent so much time talking about how wrong the tories are.

Left with Reform, British Democrats, Lib Dem and Green. Went with Lib Dem as local candidate decent.

I edited as you are talking about maternity care rather than more generally. Need more caffeine!

Saying it was better under Labour - which the NHS definitively was, and education too and levels of poverty and so on and si on - doesn't mean it was wonderful. Or that it will quickly become wonderful.

But the Tories have driven all our public services into the ground - on purpose. The waiting lists, the state of A&E, the impossibility of seeing a doctor, the lack of teachers, the rise in poverty and foodbanks, the rise in tax, the shit in all our rivers, everything the Tories have broken beyond belief and endurance.

Things have never been perfect, but they have been and can be better than they are now. The Tories make it their strategy to convince us there is no hope. Their only chance of mitigating their own wipeout is if they make enough of us apathetic and cynical enough that we don't vote at all.

No one is saying it’s all wonderful for the NHS under Labour , there will always be continual financial challenges, but NO ONE has seen it this bad, the Tories have decimated it.

He will preside over the reversal of women’s rights. No question - we’ll be told not to worry and to be kind, but just in case anyone does make a fuss it’ll be criminalised to question that an anatomically intact man can enter anywhere with girls and women.

No wobbling from me I’ll be voting Labour

That will also depend on how the U.K. fares in a very different global context to the 90s and Blair

Imo he will be going against the grain and it could prove difficult for the U.K.

There was more money than ever before at that point. That situation (if it ever existed because the press always tells the truth) certainly wasn’t down to underfunding. And just think for a moment about what it’s criticising - a lack of one to one care - something that only exists in private hospitals.

Christ if it’s not but what about Corbyn?! it’s the Tories are woman’s champions!
It’s bizarre.

It’s not true. The Tories don’t give a shit about women.

@BIossomtoes it's the guardian, the royal college of midwives and the then health secretary admitting failure and a funding crisis?

I've an NHS apt this afternoon. There's already been batahit nonsense this week about possible cancellations where one arm doesn't know what the other is doing. I'll make a careful note. I'll have the exact same appointment for the same procedure in 12 months.

It will be an interesting compare and contrast exercise.

Every appointment at this unit since 2016 has been a shambles. So far it's all been under the Tories. However, under Labour, the NHS refused my children grommets when they were in great pain and taking AB's almost continuously. Such a good thing we could drop the £1200 on each of them. Blair's Labour wouldn't.

And how much worse did this crisis and underfunding become when the Tories took over and imposed austerity? Do the Tories fix public services or make them worse? There is plenty of evidence of how much better the NHS is when Labour are in power - not perfect, not devoid of crisis, of course - but better.

But it's working. You can see it i this thread. The Conservative spin machine lies are taking hold in the public consciousness.

You've also got posters suggesting that they're going to vote for Reform as a "protest" - not because they agree with their policies, because they haven't read them.

At the very least, critical thinking is widely lacking.

"as a protest, I'm going to vote for Farage to lead our country".

The electorate sounds like they're being thick in those instances don't they.

This is what I'm doing otherwise it would be "none of the above". Our longstanding Conservative MP is a decent bloke and always responds to emails etc. He's predicted to lose to Labour though.

Why is a protest vote thick? I know people are concerned about Reform but if you remove that part voting as a protest is part of democracy

I’m voting Lib-Dem solely to ensure the current MP is not re- elected.
After many years living in Wales the prospect of a Labour government does not fill me with hope.

Because there's no thought to the consequences of casting that vote.

Do we actually want Farage leading the country? Is the Reform party what is best for us?

By all means take your vote from the Tories. But it is daft to take it to Reform (or any other party) unless you want them in power. Because that's the potential consequence.