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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Men and their fragile egos

58 replies

AStepAtaTime · 24/06/2024 12:38

Foo Fighters and Taylor Swift have been playing in London this weekend, with Dave Grohl taking an obvious swipe at TS in his set, by nicknaming his gigs "the errors tour," and that errors occur in his set because his band "actually play live."

Dave Grohl is worth $330 million. He could buy the moon if he wanted. He never needs to worry about money. But what he clearly does worry about is being trumped at the superstar status polls by the sheer footfall of people attending Taylor's gigs and the outpouring of love and happiness her concerts provoke. I am not a Swifty, I don't listen to her songs but it's evident to me that she has more to offer to the crowd that simply her music. Her concerts are full of kids, and adults of all ages. There's no viciousness or unpleasant rhetoric. She advocates empathy and engagement, and connectivity between people. That to me, appears to be her superpower. People like the feeling she evokes in them.

Dave Grohl on the other hand, is a superbly talented musician with a career spanning nearly 3 decades in the spotlight. He has the ability to create and play excellent music. He has no need to feel threatened by another performer. And yet his nasty comments about TS show that he does, in fact have a need to publicly put her down.

I would argue that DG is the musically superior of the two. His comments are odd and somehow petty given that he's mega-rich and extremely talented. So what else could have motivated him to say this? It must be that his ego is fragile and is under threat. A man who could have anything he wants and is at the top of his artistic game and yet............his ego is hurt by a successful, creative woman.

Do you think he would have taken this cheap shot at a fellow performer if that fellow performer was another man? I don't think he would.

It's so unattractive and infantile for someone of his standing to bitch about a woman on stage in this way. He could play his gig, enjoy doing his thing and try and be an adult. But no. He had to get that pot shot in there. He could use his status for good, rather than simply pander to his mammoth ego but obviously he's not mature enough.

Will men ever grow the fuck up?

OP posts:
Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 12:43

I just saw this on This Morning I'm so disappointed I really am. i love Dave Grohl and I really thought he supported other artists etc etc and to take a pop at a young woman old enough to be his daughter and who actually is kicking arse and: taking over the world " with this tour . He should be absolutely ashamed of himself. TS did answer him back apparently but this is misogyny at its worst.

Howbizarre22 · 24/06/2024 12:46

It’s pathetic. Men just simply cannot take the idea of a woman overshadowing them. Absolutely pathetic.

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 12:48

Dave Grohl has daughters I hope they give him hell. I wondered if it was meant as a joke of some sort but I can't see the funny side.

PartOfTheFurniture12 · 24/06/2024 13:40

Grohl has praised Swift in the past, so it seems that something has soured the relationship. There's speculation that Grohl's 17-year-old daughter was harassed online by Swifties because she criticised Swift's private jet use, so maybe it's something to do with that. Agree that it's disappointing and childish and that he should be more professional, though. Dave has had beef with male rock stars before, fwiw.

I'm not saying any of that because I have any particular love for Grohl. It's just a bit one-dimensional and sexist to jump to "fragile male ego" and "I bet he wouldn't say anything if she was a man" when there is probably far more nuance behind the scenes. Swift has been popular for a long time. If Grohl was threatened by her success then it would have come up ages ago and he probably would have said similar about other big female artists like Beyonce.

Also, surely the whole "he's attacking a young woman" angle from a PP is a bit infantilising? Taylor Swift is 34, she's a grown adult with a very successful career spanning decades. She has handled his comment very diplomatically, came out looking the bigger person and is clearly more than capable of holding her own.

https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/music/taylor-swift-seemingly-mocked-by-dave-grohl-during-foo-fighters-london-show/article68326808.ece

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2024/music/news/foo-fighters-dave-grohl-mocks-taylor-swift-london-1236045245/amp/

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-brief-feud-between-dave-grohl-and-lars-ulrich/

Taylor Swift seemingly mocked by Dave Grohl during Foo Fighters’ London show

Foo Fighters' Dave Grohl jokes about Taylor Swift during London concert, sparking playful banter between the two artists.

https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/music/taylor-swift-seemingly-mocked-by-dave-grohl-during-foo-fighters-london-show/article68326808.ece

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 13:49

Taylor swift is a young woman to me and Dave grohl I appreciate she Is a grown woman and I didn't mean to infantise her but maybe Dave grohl shouldn't be having a go at women who he has obviously got a personal or maybe professional grievance with. TS fans are fierce but I don't think she advocates online bullying of other women.

I'm sure Dave Grohls daughter can own her own words..

Bobbotgegrinch · 24/06/2024 13:56

His 17yo daughter has had an absolute ton of grief from Taylor Swift fans after mentioning her private jet use on social media, to the extent that she's had to shut down her social media accounts.

I did wonder whether Dave Grohl is trying to take the focus off of her a bit by taking the piss of of Swift himself. Stupid thing to do but it just seems very unlike him otherwise

beguilingeyes · 24/06/2024 13:56

It may have been taken out of context, but it comes across as petty and mean.

LaurieFairyCake · 24/06/2024 14:01

Everyone should be mentioning private jet use surely 🤷‍♀️

Since we've proper fucked the climate Hmm

SummaLuvin · 24/06/2024 14:04

Bobbotgegrinch · 24/06/2024 13:56

His 17yo daughter has had an absolute ton of grief from Taylor Swift fans after mentioning her private jet use on social media, to the extent that she's had to shut down her social media accounts.

I did wonder whether Dave Grohl is trying to take the focus off of her a bit by taking the piss of of Swift himself. Stupid thing to do but it just seems very unlike him otherwise

Taylor should condemn her fans when they do this - I suspect she doesn't as she doesn't want to draw further attention. But equally, Daves daughter will have known what she was doing and what to expect when she picked that fight. Also pretty hypocritical when her father uses private jets, and she has used them with him!!

I do think it is based in misogyny and sexism, but even outside of the gender and age differences between Taylor and Dave, it is just so unclassy. You don't need to tear someone else down to build yourself up.

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 14:05

I didn't know about the SM thing and his Dd the Internet is mad isn't it ?

Tattletwat · 24/06/2024 14:13

The band used to support AIDS denial and did some concerts in support of a AIDS denial group so it's not first time they have done dumb stuff

RocketPanda · 24/06/2024 14:19

So is Dave Grohl also wearing heels and dancing and having costume changes?

ohyesido · 24/06/2024 14:22

I think there some people, like Taylor and Meghan Markle, who seem to attract unpleasantness from others for no clear reason. There seems to be an element of acceptance that the be kind approach doesn’t apply to some people, and people who would not normally be so unkind to others are inexplicably mean and disparaging to certain people.

JandLandG · 24/06/2024 14:24

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 12:43

I just saw this on This Morning I'm so disappointed I really am. i love Dave Grohl and I really thought he supported other artists etc etc and to take a pop at a young woman old enough to be his daughter and who actually is kicking arse and: taking over the world " with this tour . He should be absolutely ashamed of himself. TS did answer him back apparently but this is misogyny at its worst.

Misogyny?

Really

I mean, come on.

I don't like that word anyway, tbh...hugely overused and way too much for most contexts.

Proper misogyny is absolutely horrible.

I don't mean to have a go, but...

I think someone else mentioned "would he have a go at if TS was a male artist" or something like that.

Again, that's a bit daft if you don't mind me saying. Musicians having a go at other musicians is a decades-long thing...gender isn't a thing in that age-old tradition.

Personally speaking, I don't like his band's music - too much rock and not enough roll, as I bore people saying when talking about those kind of stadium rock bands.

I haven't seen the footage but maybe he was just taking the Mickey a little bit ...no big deal, I don't think...and definitely not a case of the patriarchy asserting it's dominance or whatever...

Happy to have the debate though..

SummaLuvin · 24/06/2024 14:34

JandLandG · 24/06/2024 14:24

Misogyny?

Really

I mean, come on.

I don't like that word anyway, tbh...hugely overused and way too much for most contexts.

Proper misogyny is absolutely horrible.

I don't mean to have a go, but...

I think someone else mentioned "would he have a go at if TS was a male artist" or something like that.

Again, that's a bit daft if you don't mind me saying. Musicians having a go at other musicians is a decades-long thing...gender isn't a thing in that age-old tradition.

Personally speaking, I don't like his band's music - too much rock and not enough roll, as I bore people saying when talking about those kind of stadium rock bands.

I haven't seen the footage but maybe he was just taking the Mickey a little bit ...no big deal, I don't think...and definitely not a case of the patriarchy asserting it's dominance or whatever...

Happy to have the debate though..

misogyny can be overt and covert. For me the misogyny is covert here, it's wrapped in the idea that women's interests and tastes are less than. The reason he felt so safe making this sort of comment and didn't expect push back is the idea that Taylor is a silly shallow woman, making silly shallow music, to be consumed by other silly shallow women - and he is above that and better than that and thought his (largely male) audience would be complicit in trying to take her down a peg. He might have made those comments about men, but I think it would have been in a way where he was actually intentionally starting major beef, not being snarky in throw away comments for a cheap round of applause. I also think the very reason he made the comment was sexist at it's core - how can crappy poppy Taylor Fecking Swift be selling out stadiums when I am not - it hurt his ego to be bested by a fellow musician, a woman, in the same city on the same night.

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 14:46

Yes absolutely mysogony it's easy to explain away as "we are all equal" he could have said it a male performer but he was saying his man music was superior.

Hateam · 24/06/2024 14:46

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 12:43

I just saw this on This Morning I'm so disappointed I really am. i love Dave Grohl and I really thought he supported other artists etc etc and to take a pop at a young woman old enough to be his daughter and who actually is kicking arse and: taking over the world " with this tour . He should be absolutely ashamed of himself. TS did answer him back apparently but this is misogyny at its worst.

You lead a truly blessed and charmed life if you feel this is, "...misogyny at its worst."

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 14:46

SummaLuvin · 24/06/2024 14:34

misogyny can be overt and covert. For me the misogyny is covert here, it's wrapped in the idea that women's interests and tastes are less than. The reason he felt so safe making this sort of comment and didn't expect push back is the idea that Taylor is a silly shallow woman, making silly shallow music, to be consumed by other silly shallow women - and he is above that and better than that and thought his (largely male) audience would be complicit in trying to take her down a peg. He might have made those comments about men, but I think it would have been in a way where he was actually intentionally starting major beef, not being snarky in throw away comments for a cheap round of applause. I also think the very reason he made the comment was sexist at it's core - how can crappy poppy Taylor Fecking Swift be selling out stadiums when I am not - it hurt his ego to be bested by a fellow musician, a woman, in the same city on the same night.

Yes this is a better explanation.

Mrsjayy · 24/06/2024 14:51

Hateam · 24/06/2024 14:46

You lead a truly blessed and charmed life if you feel this is, "...misogyny at its worst."

Well I think wrapping it up as "banter" is the one of worst kinds. I mean you are allowed to disagree with me ill just get back to my charmed life .

larkstar · 24/06/2024 14:53

I just thought it was a joke (era's/errors) - wasn't he just saying that they botch things up live sometimes but - hey - so long as we're all having a good time - but it's not the smartest thing he's done. I'm not a FF fan - their music's not for me - but I love the way that DG and the band go about their live performances etc and I've read a lot of good things about the guy - so - it seems like a disappointing on the surface - I'm sure they'll iron it out later with a joint selfie or a guest appearance. They're adults - Taylor is smart and worldly wise; storm in a teacup.

JandLandG · 24/06/2024 14:54

SummaLuvin · 24/06/2024 14:34

misogyny can be overt and covert. For me the misogyny is covert here, it's wrapped in the idea that women's interests and tastes are less than. The reason he felt so safe making this sort of comment and didn't expect push back is the idea that Taylor is a silly shallow woman, making silly shallow music, to be consumed by other silly shallow women - and he is above that and better than that and thought his (largely male) audience would be complicit in trying to take her down a peg. He might have made those comments about men, but I think it would have been in a way where he was actually intentionally starting major beef, not being snarky in throw away comments for a cheap round of applause. I also think the very reason he made the comment was sexist at it's core - how can crappy poppy Taylor Fecking Swift be selling out stadiums when I am not - it hurt his ego to be bested by a fellow musician, a woman, in the same city on the same night.

Ok, I appreciate the response...but..

I'm being devil's advocate a bit, tbh,

He'd expect comment and pushback but maybe he enjoys that personally and that's the nature of the male propensity for "bants"

Not all males, not not all females, not necessarily nasty bants...just a little of a Mickey take, as I mentioned.

TS is a grown up 34 year old woman, who - as much as she is ace - hasn't really moved on artistically from boy/girl/love/not love type stuff you'd expect from young pop singers. Come on, Taylor - let's tackle some social issues!

Calm Down does that, I suppose, and I like that record.

I've no idea what profundities Dave Growl (ha, apt spell-check thing there) writes about, but I doubt his artistry contains much more heft and gravitas than Taylor's.

I'm sure TS will have a witty and intelligent little pop back at him tonight on stage (is she's playing)...rightly so; a little bit of goodnatured competition and rivalry is fun.

Bringing your beefhead sports guy bf on stage was a bit lame though, wasn't it
?

Begsthequestion · 24/06/2024 14:57

Is it not a joke about Swift releasing the same album many times, but changing a single track, so she can get her fans to spend all much as possible without her having to produce new material? And re-recording her old albums again, to cash in twice for the same songs?

SummaLuvin · 24/06/2024 15:01

JandLandG · 24/06/2024 14:54

Ok, I appreciate the response...but..

I'm being devil's advocate a bit, tbh,

He'd expect comment and pushback but maybe he enjoys that personally and that's the nature of the male propensity for "bants"

Not all males, not not all females, not necessarily nasty bants...just a little of a Mickey take, as I mentioned.

TS is a grown up 34 year old woman, who - as much as she is ace - hasn't really moved on artistically from boy/girl/love/not love type stuff you'd expect from young pop singers. Come on, Taylor - let's tackle some social issues!

Calm Down does that, I suppose, and I like that record.

I've no idea what profundities Dave Growl (ha, apt spell-check thing there) writes about, but I doubt his artistry contains much more heft and gravitas than Taylor's.

I'm sure TS will have a witty and intelligent little pop back at him tonight on stage (is she's playing)...rightly so; a little bit of goodnatured competition and rivalry is fun.

Bringing your beefhead sports guy bf on stage was a bit lame though, wasn't it
?

It definitely was a joke, but it was a joke at the expense of Taylor. Why bring her up just to have a go and making a snarky sneery comment? He could have stuck with "this is the error tour because I balls it up sometimes" but no he had to have a dig about live singing. "is it a wonder I broke, lets hear one more joke, then we could all just laugh until I cry". And it's not even an original joke, Swifties have be using 'The Eras Tour' from the start as a catch all for wardrobe malfunction, incorrect lyrics, bugs flying in her mouth, missed choreography, screen glitches...

And if you think all she sing about is teenage love then you can't have made much/any effort to explore her discography, she sings about a wide array of subjects. Love and heartbreak is at its core, but even then, not the sort of love and heartbreak she was singing about when she was 16. And most singers have love as a major musical theme, it's the human experience that we can all connect to, but as I said her music is far from limited to that subject.

LittleLegsKeepGoing · 24/06/2024 15:02

RocketPanda · 24/06/2024 14:19

So is Dave Grohl also wearing heels and dancing and having costume changes?

Maybe not but P!nk does, sings live and is frankly amazing to behold. She made a quip about little glitches that happen when you're performing live in the show I attended - it's not just a male ego thing. It's a valid performer thing...you've either got it to be a live performer without all the studio tricks - or you don't!

That's not to denigrate TS, she's obviously a song writer that appeals to millions and is capable of performing well enough on her albums and creating a show people want to see. But she's not a live performer of note. DG and many others are.

TheLinguisticalGangster · 24/06/2024 15:06

https://newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/p/invisible-women-the-pen-is-in-her

I think this is a good comment on how women's art can be seen as lesser than men's.