To not go on this holiday?

[ReginaPhalang3]

Long story short; we were due to go on holiday (Within UK) next week with DH's brother and his family. There was an argument between DH and his brother and we've been uninvited. I have a feeling that the brother might regret this and re-invite us last minute, am I unreasonable to say I still don't want to go if he does?

For a bit more context. Things have been tense between them for a while. I think they were both hoping things would improve now we both have kids (12 month old and 20 month old) but it's obvious we do a lot of things differently and it's caused tension. My DH has held his tongue a lot when we've had visits and they've done some inconsiderate things so I think the tension has been boiling over. I'm sure there are things from their side they're not happy with either. During the last visit the brother was in a terrible mood, refused to go to the event I booked for us all (which I checked with them about before booking) and shouted at my DH in front of the kids. DH recognised he had been a bit annoying (was cleaning up after him) and apologised but got shouted at again.

Argument this time was due to my DH feeling that we didn't have any say in plans and food and trying to set a boundary. DH reflected on it the next day and realised he could have explained himself better but we got a message to say don't come. We've tried talking to both of them multiple times and agreed to compromise even more from our side but been told three times in the last week not to come (it's gone back and forth). DH finally said fine as we don't think we should have to beg to go on this holiday when it clearly will be awkward.

I've always kept the peace as I really don't want my DH to lose the relationship with his brother but the last couple of visits have been really unpleasant. However, the thought of going now makes me feel really uncomfortable and I don't want to bring our baby somewhere where there will be lots of tension.

What would others do?

No, don’t go even if they ask you to. He sounds like a control freak.

Definitely don’t go. How’s it been arranged? Will you get your money back? The brother sounds like very hard work and if DH wants to pull right back then respect that.

You saying you want them to keep the relationship is quite naive and I don’t understand the desperation to be close just because people are siblings. They didn’t get on before you had kids and children never make situations easier (despite the joy they bring) they were always bound to inflame any underlying tensions because people want the best for/ around the children and it doesn’t sound like the brothers can be their best selves around each other. They clearly clash, clearly wouldn’t choose to be friends if they weren’t related and I think you’ll just be forcing both kids into volatile situations their entire childhoods if you continue pushing it.

Give them space, you’re not unreasonable to back away and just reassess if there’s an actual relationship there or do you all just feel you “should” like each other. Surround your child with friends and family members whose company you enjoy instead.

It was arranged by the brother (a bit annoying as we didn't know how much it cost before he booked it). He says he will give us the money back but not sure when. I initially felt bad at the thought of them having to give half the money back but it's not really our fault if we've been uninvited!

I would definitely not go. But also, if I was on the other side of this, I wouldn't be re-inviting you either.

Nobody wants a holiday when bad feeling could flare up and spoil it for everyone.

I'm future, if you manage to salvage the relationship, maybe don't agree to go on holiday. A couple of hours together every now and then is probably enough.

Thank you, that's really helpful!

I think I've more been conscious that I don't want to make things worse or for him to do something he will regret. Their family is very spread out so i guess I feel sad at the prospect of him not having a family connection. I had to cut some family off when I was younger as they were only making my life worse.

However, everything you've said is right. I think at this point it's causing everyone more stress. I think it's come to a head now as I'm really not willing to put our child in these situations whereas I could grin and bear it.

It sounds like short visits might be better going forwards so definitely don't go on this holiday as you will all be together for ages.

I would send a nice message though along the lines of 'We have made other plans, have a great time, we will see you when we get back'

I wouldn't go get your money back and just do your own thing the brothers don't have to get on do they?

My Dh and his brother don't really get on
that well all the kids are adults now but it broke down years ago because they "tried" for the kids it really was pointless their relationship wasn't great and kids just wasn't going to mend it which is a shame, but the families dynamics ran deep. We see them occasionally but not for long because it's too tense and they definitely wouldn't manage a holiday.

I wouldn't go away with them now. He probably will re-invite you as he won't want to give back any money. Do not give him the satisfaction of accepting crumbs. I would also distance yourselves from him You sound too involved in each other's lives.

I think as a partner we take more responsibility for “keeping family together” but ultimately it’s between the brothers to see what relationship is there now they’re adults.

Also it’s not like it has to be a never see each other, but rather just don’t force it frequently. Meet occasionally at the zoo/ beach with the kids, send a text once in a while, maybe take the pressure off talking about “family” and leading to arguments and instead find some common ground again as brothers - could they just send things like funny videos etc to each other and try and find a way to like each other before adding in pressures of family gatherings. The losing the temper in front of the kids can’t happen, but only you know if this is the result of them being totally incompatible (is brother just generally aggressive ) or was it just a heightened clash in the moment.

But I do think given their current state that holidays on top of each other just won’t be helpful or enjoyable for anyone. Don’t take it personally or feel guilt on your part either; you’re not unreasonable to not want your baby around that atmosphere, nor is it your job to fix. You’ve done more than enough facilitating, now it’s up to the brothers.

Yanbu, and stop trying to be the peacemaker between the two brothers. Their relationship is for the two of them to sort out.

Absolutely. Just accept they don’t get on, and that if they want to work on their relationship, it’s up to them to decide this and do it one-on-one without inflicting this aggression and willy-waving on the rest of their families.

It is up to your DH to decide how and if he wants to keep up his relationship with his brother. Your sole role is to support him in whatever decision he makes. You never ever have to visit the brother or go on holiday with him.
If they come to you agree house rules beforehand with your DH that he can then agree with his brother, and then your sole role (if you want to be there) is to smile and play nicely.

But it isn't your role to decide that for your DH. Make sure you get the money back and don't let yourself get in the ridiculous position of letting someone book something when you don't know the cost/ground rules upfront.

I think you should message and say can we please have our money back.

It's not her role to decide for her DH, but she can have an opinion and doesn't have to go along with what he wants.

I personally wouldn't go, why bother going on holiday with people you've never got along with...just because they are family? Nah

You 're scheming about declining an invitation you haven't received?

Is there a tiny possibility that you've caused some of the drama in DH's family?

I don't get on well with one of my sister's. My youngest and her eldest are the same age, we parent differently. We have done a few days out together but the only way to make it work is to compromise. For the sake of my children I can do this for a daytrip but wouldn't for a holiday. This is why when my mum suggests a family holiday I politely decline, they just run off totally different timings and I don't want to waste precious time off and money waiting around for others only for them to do their own thing anyway. I know it sounds harsh but it's just how I feel.

If they didn't get on well pre kids, post kids they likely won't either. You can't facilitate a relationship that just isn't there. I'd focus on your nuclear family as that is what is most important. When ready perhaps the brothers could reach out and spend some time one on one but that shouldn't be pressured. If they want to work on their relationship then they have to take the onus to work on it themselves.

Maybe overly convoluted but I'd be tempted to make some other plans for those dates. Then if they do invite you along, you can say thank you, but now we can't (rather than won't). Maybe arrange to see them one day soon instead.

A face-saving third way out can smooth things over.

Definitely don't go and never plan holidays with people you don't get on with, if there is anything that's going to permanently destroy a fragile relationship it's going on holiday together.

I wouldn't have agreed to go this time in the first place as you said the last holiday wasn't great because of BIL being in a bad mood and the incident with the event you had booked.
You don't have to go on holiday with them for the two brothers to maintain a relationship with each other. Holidays exacerbate tensions which are already there so it's just going to lead to bad feeling.
No more holidays with them ever. Simplest solution.

It's absolutely nuts to go on holiday with anyone you have an obviously fraught relationship with. If your husband and his brother can't spend a day together without tension, why on earth would you spend a week with them?!

I know you say that you want to preserve their relationship as brothers, but honestly? There's no need for that. They don't need to be friends. Being genetically related doesn't mean you automatically have to get along.

It's nice, obviously, to have a relationship that's at least easy and civil - but the way to achieve that for people who don't naturally get along is to keep it light and distant. Having days out together and going on holidays and trying to get the kids together is absolutely not going to make things better - it will simply make things worse.

My sister and I are very different people. I love her and I'd be there for her in any hour of need, but I rarely see her other than at family occasions, when we hug and chat and have a laugh, and it's (usually!) nice. But if we were having family days out together and going on holiday, it would absolutely destroy our relationship - we'd probably end up killing each other!

what kind of an example are these two setting their children?

i think it for the best that they keep apart

I think her H should

Please don't go even if they ask you to go. There will only end up having another falling out and their relationship could become irreparable. You can still all see each other occasionally and have a good relationship. I get on great with my sister but I'd never ever go on holidays with her and same with my in-laws .

Take the milk ney back.amf book yourself to go somewhere different. Don't agree to go together again. Maybe going forward it would be best for your DH and his brother to just meet up for a quick drink together then both go home. That would cool tensions.