Wanting assurances about Women’s Rights, yet debate is often reframed around trans issues - why?

[DissidentDaughter]

Ask about women’s sex-based rights and, for some reason, many hosts/moderators and contributors automatically head down the ‘trans rights/gender’ avenue… What’s going on?

51% of the population - a distinct class in our own right - and yet most journalists and TV/radio interviewers struggle to be accurate and focused when announcing the topic.

How credible is the ‘toxic debate’ mantra?

How is it ‘bigotry’ for women to talk about their sex-specific realities and the right to safeguard boundaries and single-sex spaces/services?

Why do many people get offended by the concept of ‘consent’?

• AIBU - journalists/TV&Radio hosts shouldn’t have to bother about clarity

• YANBU - journalists/TV&Radio hosts have a duty to understand the distinction between women’s rights and trans issues.

before any of this trans nonsense was a thing

You kind of give yourself away to not listening to anyone else there seeing as in your first sentence it's that.
So thumbs up and OK is all you got, as I've said you seem to have firmly shown that's the level of debate we're dealing with when it comes to with each other 👍

No it doesn't. You clearly understand the first thing about Gillick competency.

I mean, think about what you're saying here. Unless we agree on competency for consent for everything, we can't have competency for consent for anything? That's clearly total nonsense.

I'm 38 and when I was a teenager none of my peers were engaged in a futile attempt to change sex, so yes it is a recent thing. Teenage girls were quite able to access contraception back then DESPITE the fact that we didn't have an army of trans identifying teenagers demanding the right to permanently sterilise themselves.

Your argument appears to be that we should not implement the Cass report because if we do it's a slippery slope towards women not being able to access the pill anymore.

I'm 38 and when I was a teenager none of my peers were engaged in a futile attempt to change sex, so yes it is a recent thing

I'm cracking on for 50 and there was no gay people around or people who didn't feel right in their body when I was at school either
except there will have no doubt been
Blame Section 28 under the Tories for that.

Gay people had made some progress by the time I was a young adult. It was totally acceptable to be gay in my circles. Now those kids are being told that they're in the wrong body and encouraged to identify as a straight member of the opposite sex. The clinicians at the Tavistock joked that at the rate they were going there would be no gay kids left soon.

"Progress."

🙄

Eh? So it’s ok to be concerned about women’s rights “if that’s all it is”?

Unfortunately my concerns don’t extend to caring particularly about what other people who also exist are wearing, as long as they’re comfortable.

But, yes, as a woman, I’m quite clear on what constitutes women’s rights, which are not “intertwined with trans rights”, unless we are talking about ‘trans men’ aka trans identified females.

,Gay people had made some progress by the time I was a young adult. It was totally acceptable to be gay in my circles

Not in mine, if you'd have tried being openly gay or cross dressing (as that would have been all it was referred to back then due to lack of knowledge) in our Northern pit village you'd have definitely been peered at/ridiculed growing up in the 80s /early 90s..
(Not saying that's the same everywhere in them, just that it clearly wasn't the norm to be "totally acceptable")
It really wasn't.

Yes. We are already seeing prominent GC campaigners advocating for limitations on contraception because of "misuse of consent"

https://x.com/ICanSeeForever1/status/1633479544916045824

Some of the other stuff around changing the law in the UK (particularly the Equality act) also opens the door for governments to remove some of our other legal protections.

It deeply worries me how the debate is being framed as women could end up inadvertently doing a lot of damage to their own interests, thinking they are helping "womens rights".

I'm a similar age. No out gay people at school but at uni with someone trans.

Not sure what everyone's anecdata tells us 😂 but I do think people a bit younger have no clue what it was like for gay teenagers during section 28.

Amazing isn't it? They made damn sure to protect men's rights to landed estates and titles and people say it wasn't a Men's Rights Act. It was one of the most sexist, misogynistic, homophobic pieces of legislation ever enacted but hey Dear Leader Starmer is ever so proud of it so all is right with the world.

It's just mind blowing. The ONE area where men could have lost out, they quietly ring fenced and protected. 🙄

provision was made to exempt trans men from taking one privilege away from biological men - estates are entailed in the male line

Completely agree there, that should be the same for trans men.

Im 46 , in my year , we had 4/5 out gay boys , at least 3 out lesbians but strangely enough no one claiming to be the opposite sex , or people insisting on using spaces for the opposite sex.

Apologies, Mumsnet, if I’ve overstepped a line 🙏

Ask about women’s sex-based rights and, for some reason, many hosts/moderators and contributors automatically head down the ‘trans rights/gender’ avenue… What’s going on?

You are not unreasonable at all @DissidentDaughter it is not just hosts/moderators it is politicians and Keir Starmer is a master at it, mention women's rights and he immediately focuses on trans complete with wobbly lip and teary eyes for what he says is the most vulnerable group in society ever, ever, ever. Cassie will be after me in a minute telling me just what an absolute paragon of standing up for women's rights KS is despite all the evidence to the contrary.

51% of the population - a distinct class in our own right - and yet most journalists and TV/radio interviewers struggle to be accurate and focused when announcing the topic.

They aren't struggling to be accurate it is just a deflection tactic and they really don't give a damn about women.

How credible is the ‘toxic debate’ mantra?

It's only credible when it is recognised clearly and honestly where the toxicity is coming from, but it never is. Reason for that? Misogyny.

How is it ‘bigotry’ for women to talk about their sex-specific realities and the right to safeguard boundaries and single-sex spaces/services?

You and I and most of the rest of the population know it is not but those who are determined to undermine women's rights can't allow those discussions to talk place so abuse, dehumanisation and dismissal is the order of the day.

Why do many people get offended by the concept of ‘consent’?

They can't abide women saying no, that's just not cricket.

Out of interest, does this logic apply to anything teenagers want to do to their bodies?

Eyeball tatoos?
Filing teeth into points?
Tongue forking?
Having a contactless payment chip implanted in a finger?

Or is it just cross-sex cosmetic hormones and surgery that has this special link to contraception?

Your comments give me food for thought @GailBlancheViola

It’s always disappointing when talking about women’s rights is equated with being ‘anti trans’.

That said, I suspect there are many of us that recognise people struggling with dysphoria have their own vulnerabilities, and hope they are supported sensitively and appropriately.

What does that have to do with the current problem of male people identifying as female?

Right. So progress was made, and now things are going backwards again thanks to this homophobic ideology.

Completely agree yanbu

Kellie-Jay Keen has said many times that she is not gender critical, or a feminist.

Where are you getting that from - progress literally wasn't made if it wasn't acceptable in a lot of circles?
Just because it was OK where you were doesn't mean it was ok in a lot of places.
Sounds like you lived in a bit of a bubble

Kellie-Jay Keen has said many times that she is not gender critical, or a feminist
Exactly
Though still advocates on behalf of feminists and women's rights

Clearly progress was made if you are saying that when you were young it wasn't acceptable to be gay, whereas when I was young it was.

But now things are going backwards again, thanks to the TQ+ movement.