To think that UK should rejoin EU AND Schengen Area?

[ChirpyBee]

I know UK was never in Schengen, I propose that we rejoin both the EU and join Schengen.

I have waited HOURS at passport control at both ends for the Rotterdam/Hull ferry and it is ridiculous. If someone is ok to be in France/Germany/Netherlands then they're OK to be in the UK - we're not special. The increase in efficiencies would be enormous!

Never mind all the other economic and social benefits being part of the EU would provide, as well as the commonality of regulations and standards - which benefits us allas consumers, never let big business fool you that "red tape" is bad - it's regulation for the greater social good!

Unfortunately the UK population/electorate are too xenophobic and racist for this to happen.

Again they’ll accept us but only if we agree to their terms and for the uk government the freedom of movement is a red line.

but efta isn’t a great solution as it’s has lots of the legalisation without the ability to negotiate it.

It is not illegal. It is unlawful in certain circumstances.

But it is an easy thing to fix. I imagine that if we did ever rejoin the EU or SM or EEA or CU, there would be a lot of laws to amend. We'd do it and rejoin.

The EU wouldn't say "oh you can't rejoin because you tax private schools". They'd say "if you want to rejoin you'll have to amend the tax treatment of private schools" (along with lots of other stuff).

@parkrun500club it's so depressing. Labelling people as racists, little Englanders, knuckle draggers etc because it was so polarising and really stifled debate. Yes, I know there were insults on both sides, but I've found it so limiting on threads where there actually had been a good debate developing. I don't know why people do it.

FOM for EFTA might not be a red line, it's only 4 countries and we have an arrangement with Switzerland I believe.

That's an interesting "outlier" plan of Macron. I had read that he was keen for the UK to rejoin.

Brexit must be reversed because Mumsnetter has been inconvenienced at a ferry terminal! I've heard it all now 🤣🤣🤣

This really is a whole new level of entitlement!

I think we probably will rejoin at some point.

But I also think that the current EU has got out of hand, and it's gone from a trading alliance to almost a country in its own right. I see loose parallels with the spread of the USSR - I do mean loose - and in the end that got over stretched and caved in on itself, with some individual countries wanting their own independence.

As we aren't part of the EU at the moment I am happy to watch from the sidelines and see what occurs.

So I do think we will rejoin at some point, but what we rejoin and whether the EU is still in it's current form is another matter. And will we be credited with any eventual reform? Who knows!

Oh my god, @Createausername1970 - I was about to say exactly the same thing, as I lived in the former Soviet Union.
True.

How funny! I thought I would get jumped on by someone for saying that. I don't think it would be regarded as a politically correct viewpoint 🤣

Do you mean you can no longer go travelling in Europe?

Same as bloody Brexit, every opportunity to mention it.. get over it😂😂

European elections were a bit scary, it’s put me off the concept of re-joining. The far right has done too well, although turnout was poor.

I wonder if the French election first round will have an effect on ours?

Dunno if Farage has shot himself in the foot with the remarks about Putin, he was doing well with the stop the boats thing. We did an ‘election’ on Friday at school and a lot of the kids were talking about voting for Reform. I have to wonder if they’re hearing this from parents.

Upon further investigation it appears that 'bendy bananas' were not included in the list of 26 fruit and vegetable marketing exemptions although 'bendy cucumbers' were - the New York Times correspondent (based in London) had obviously assumed bananas would be included;

European Commission
Press Release 30 June 2009
The return of the bendy cucumber: 'wonky' fruit and vegetables back on sale from 1st July.

July 1st [2009] marks the return to our shelves of the curved cucumber and the knobbly carrot," said Mariann Fischer Boel, Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development. "More seriously, this is a concrete example of our drive to cut unnecessary red tape. We don't need to regulate this sort of thing at EU level. It is far better to leave it to market operators. The changes also mean that consumers will be able to choose from the widest range of products possible. It makes no sense to throw perfectly good products away, just because they are the 'wrong' size and shape."
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_1059

https://www.independent.co.uk/business/eu-bendy-bananas-regulation-will-be-dropped-says-environment-secretary-b2422503.html

Unfortunately, there are parallels.
There are significant problems with the EU, I know that some people are reluctant to address this, but you can have concerns even if you support some aspects.

I think it’s possible to say that we shouldn’t have left whilst at the same time thinking it doesn’t necessarily make sense to rejoin now. Maybe let’s see where this French election lands. I feel there’s a disjoint between a clear drift to the right within the EU and people in the uk who definitely aren’t of those political persuasions wanting to rejoin. Maybe they feel that individual country politics aren’t relevant to EU benefits - interested in other people’s views on that.

parkrun500club
What would be good as a first step would be to rejoin the ERASMUS scheme

That was the intention but the EU wanted £2 billion for the privilege (mostly to fund their students and staff). The Turing Scheme seems to be working quite well now.

and agree to the youth mobility scheme the European Commission proposed

Much better for the UK to negotiate with preferred member states - how many of our young people want to live and work in countries such as Romania? UK Border Force have already refused entry to 25,000 Romanians since 2021.

and get rid of the 90 day in 180 day rule (maybe make it 180 in 360 instead)

That would be good - 'cherry picking' I think you'd call it.

STILL, after 8 years The 'mighty England' mindset prevails in the UK because so many in the UK have no idea of how insignificant the UK really is if you omit corrupt banking practices (that don't help the general UK population) and the fact that manufacturing is globalised and has left the UK in the dust. The UK simply hasn't got tsufficient raw materials and power(energy) to really compete any more as UK coal is too deep and would require serious investment for example.
Also joining EFTA was ruled out by the EFTA countries many yezars ago, at the time before the Withdrawal agreement was signed.
So we are still at the stage that the UK (many on this thread) are still hunting for unicorns that simply don't exist. HOW LONG will tit take for you to realise that the withdrawal Agreement and TCA is ALL the UK will get for the next few decades so the UK has to cut it's cloth to fit the new reality as the TCA/WA will not be revisited for a long time if ever becquse the EU countries have other concerns like thje significant risk of Putin bringing the war further West, deliberately or accidentally and China is also a significant problem that needs proper attention. Thus the moaning of an EX EU country that decided to leave, having been disruptive for the 45 years of EEC/EU membership is practically inaudible in Europe. Of course the EU as an institution is not perfect, it never could be as it is composed of 27 sovereign countries (now) each with their own special requirements but for now there are no corpses hanging from lampposts unlike the last time there wax a serious 'rightward' shift(1930's Germany Spain and Italy).

Meanwhile keep discussing how inconvenient it is paying VAT on Jocasta's school fees as the real world seems to be way beyond the comprehension of so many around here:

I mean that I am not longer able to live, work or study in the EU.

Short holidays are fine (after a long wait at passport control).

Really? I actually partly blame him for Boris and our hard exit. When Theresa May wanted an extension of time, he refused to allow more than six months (although she'd asked for 12 months and other EU leaders agreed but Macron always had to play to the French gallery) and that opened the door for Boris. If he'd agreed to 12 months, covid would have (possibly) intervened. The 2019 election might not have happened, either.

If someone is ok to be in France/Germany/Netherlands then they're OK to be in the UK - we're not special.

So basically anyone who is in the migrant camps anywhere in the Schengen area is OK to be in the UK then.

I think not.

the moaning of an EX EU country that decided to leave, having been disruptive for the 45 years of EEC/EU membership is practically inaudible in Europe

this is actually a bit of a fallacy. Yes the UK used to moan a lot, but it used to implement laws on time, and comply with them once implemented.

In fact, it "dutifully" implemented the updated Audio Visual Services Directive in 2019 which came into force on time in the UK in 2020 despite the fact we were leaving. As a comparison, the relevant laws in Ireland came into force last year or possibly early this year, way after the implementation deadline of 2020.

I also think that the machinations of Putin, the problems in the Middle East and China make people in Europe generally realise that we are all friends and should stick together.

for now there are no corpses hanging from lampposts unlike the last time there wax a serious 'rightward' shift(1930's Germany Spain and Italy

I believe the corpses from lampposts happened at the end of those regimes so effectively when there was a leftwards shift.

That's because the UK allows Australian passport holders to use their e-gates (and EU/CH/EEA citizens too).

The EU doesn't allow us to use theirs.

Whether VAT is charged depends upon whether the goods or services involved are VATable. So a private school hiring out its hall for a function might require it to charge VAT, but the same school does not charge VAT for education, nor for hire of sports facilities.

Indeed, I've been on many delayed trains at Freilassing while the Bayerische Grenzpolizei checked everyone's passports. Even missed a Eurostar connection as a result (next one three hours later).