Environmental march v direct action

[US2gether]

Just Stop Oil think direct action is the only way to help save the planet.

I think the upcoming environmental march is more likely to get people on board with making changes to save the planet.

Am I being unreasonable?

Sunak is toast, he’s an irrelevance

YANBU.

Being an unpopular nuisance can be a good strategy. The nonsense people in this thread say about JSO "I'd respect them more if they stayed at home" etc, are the same things people said about the Suffragettes.

Marching does bugger all.

Ultimately, a lot of people refuse to look into it themselves and don't realise how serious this climate stuff is. As things currently stand, our grandchildren will have a much more insecure, chaotic life because of actions people are taking today, and the planet may well be rendered unliveable if it gets too hot.

Everyone here will be dead in 100 years, but our descendants won't be that impressed by the laws passed now to protect your commute time from being impacted by climate activists.

I think it was actually the pandemic that shifted things in a backward direction. But nevertheless most people globally want change. We ALL need it to happen and if anyone has changed their mind about this because of JSO then that just stupidity. It is like saying I don’t like the way my plumber gave me the advice that my toilet is blocked so I’m going to keep using it anyway to show him! I know it will mean sewerage all over the floor but that’s his fault for telling me in such a forceful way!

www.undp.org/press-releases/80-percent-people-globally-want-stronger-climate-action-governments-according-un-development-programme-survey

Yup. Except I’d say this isn’t your grandchildren’s problem, it’s happening now. We are already seeing that it’s harder yo grow food, already more of the planet is becoming uninhabitable and so there is migration. That’s only going one way. Morbidity and mortality causes by climate change is already higher.

I think carrying on as normal and pretending this isn’t happening, when it’s in the news every week (unless you only get your news from the Daily Mail and Social Media) when our existence in jeopardy is insane.

Worth mentioning that JSO is focussed on climate and the march on the biodiversity crisis, they are related but are two separate things that are about to cause chaos.

The number of insects around this year is catastrophically low, how many butterflies have people seen?

If we lose pollinators, we are screwed, and Britain is one of the most nature depleted countries in the world, so there is lots the new government can do to address that.

Chuck g orange paint won t stop anything.

Using your vote and holding politicians to account will

I think that’s why I have no strawberries this year. I’ve seen so few pollinators around and we are in the sticks and keep loads of our grass areas long and have loads of native flowers. Could be dud strawberry plants.

Been doing those things for decades. This is an emergency and JSO are trying to sound an alarm to keep the focus where it needs to be. It’s made headlines and created conversation.

But they are alienating the people who they need to take these things seriously. When it's TRAs doing that I am happy. When it's about the future of the planet? Not so much.

But them alienating people isn’t going to make much difference. They are not trying to win friends and influence people. They are trying to sound the alarm to wake us up.

No one likes the sound of an alarm. Especially if it means we have got to do something we don’t want to. We can get irrationally angry with the alarm and throw it at the wall but it doesn’t change the time or that we have that horrible thing that needs doing.

The alienation argument is only relevant when you are campaigning for a nuanced cause where it’s down to values or opinions, like TRA and animal welfare.

This isn’t like that. Slowly building up support to change minds is no longer the aim. We are waaaay past that stage now. Been doing that for decades.

The job that JSO have taken on is to keep shouting to us and pointing at the danger.

Looking away is not a sensible response but some will. Makes no difference. The alarm still needs sounding, the threat hasn’t gone away and nor will it.

so [shrug] nothing to be done then, eh?

my eyes are rollling back in my head so hard. There are PLENTY of things they could do that wouldn't get people's backs up, that would grab attention and so on.

Perhaps they could pay attention to people like Fergal Sharkey who is slowly but steadily building up a movement about our waterways and beaches.

They literally just attacked private jets.

If you were in a crowded pool and there was a load of people constantly pissing and shitting in that pool and people were starting to get ill because of it, would you complain?

Or would you start shitting ?

Excellent point

I care about the environment, I did a degree in environmental studies and work in an environmental organisation actively working to improve things.

Ruining ancient monuments and the unique flora and Fauna that exists there, causing traffic jams so cars idle, graffiting aircraft that then needs chemicals to remove the paint or mass transit to the city for a march is not useful in any case.

If you want change then work for it, bring in sustainable habits at home and work, model what you want to see, walk or use public transport, but locally sourced and in season food produce, don't go on holiday, don't buy cheap clothes or other products that are transported half way across the world, don't have a smart phone or other devices that require digging up valuable lithium, don't buy helium balloons etc etc. most people aren't I tested on doing those things, and even if they are does not contend with air traffic pollution from the hundreds of thousands of flights a day, or the emissions still from fossil fuels burnt around the world.

No ancient monument has been “ruined” by orange cornstarch.

Stonehenge was “ruined” far more by acid rain.

All the things you said are great and we need to do all of those things. Additionally we need to put massive pressure on governments, corporations, the super-rich. Some of that pressure is exerted at the ballot box - but in this GE there is no major party making dramatically reducing fossil fuels top of the agenda. Some is exerted through peaceful protest, which barely makes the news. Some is exerted through direct action which does make the news and bring the topic on to the agenda. We need all of the above.

ok @brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

What do you suggest we do? What are concrete actions we should all take, and what should people like JSO do?

I will wait and see what the people who really know what they're doing, re actual damage to Stonehenge (lichen and so on) say in a month or two and in a year or two.

we can't all be perfect, but we must all do what we can as @Singleandproud outlined, to reduce our impact.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the idea that deliberately polluting any environment and knowingly cause damage requiring any kind of intervention and remediation is beyond moronic. Justifying it further because it's not as bad as other types of pollution and damage is on another level again.

Positive action would improve the environment not damage it further.

the kind of protest i'd love to see, for eg, would be picking up all the litter - wear a JSO tabard - or things like that. That would be a great start to respecting our environment.

Would that be top of the news / a huge discussion topic / make corporates rethink sponsorships / cause a visceral emotional response ?

It wouldn’t even feature in news any higher than the village facebook group and even there the fingers-in-ears deniers would compain about “virtue signalling”.

It’s no more polluting than putting crumbs out for the birds.

If Just Stop Oil had organised a few peaceful protests and the odd march, do you think any of us would have ever heard about them or what they were campaigning for? I doubt it unless they managed to get extraordinary numbers of people on one of their marches.

Similarly there is a long history of peaceful protest being completely ignored by those in authority. It took a riot to get rid of the Poll Tax.

I had no idea about FS but I did about Stonehenge. That’s really the point. No point them sounding an alarm in a soundproof room. It needs to loud enough to be heard or there is no point.

the fact that so many of you believe that nobody knows about the environmental crisis says more about people than i actually want to know

I mean it's not as if we weren't worring back in the 70s when CFCs were banned...