Environmental march v direct action

[US2gether]

Just Stop Oil think direct action is the only way to help save the planet.

I think the upcoming environmental march is more likely to get people on board with making changes to save the planet.

Am I being unreasonable?

@Whothefuckdoesthat

I agree with this too

Direct action is useful when the democratic process is not available. The suffragettes for example literally had no democratic means available to them. The people fighting against apartheid in South Africa were violently excluded from the democratic process. They had no other option.

This is not that. We have an election going on RIGHT NOW. One of two parties will win. One of those sees net zero as woke nonsense and is associating itself with climate sceptics in bad faith in order to win votes. The other is going to invest money in tackling climate change as a basis for rebuilding the economy. I know the people spraying things orange think voting is beneath them but the rest of us can and should be engaging with this debate. We live in a democratic society and we have a civic responsibility to participate rather than sit back and wait for other people to fix all our problems.

"I think it might be more effective to target our politicians to demand answers about what they’re doing about climate change and making it very clear that it’s simply not good enough. Losing votes will be the only thing that gets them acting. "

Right now politicians are losing votes for doing what an unfortunately significant proportion of the population think is too much. And without votes a politician can't do anything.

These groups never target the wealthy and powerful who are responsible for the issues in question. They always pick some bizarre pointless action which turns the average person against them. None of it makes sense

March. Write to your MP and local council. Write to the mayor. When they are up for reelection press them on environmental issues. Again and again.

That is direct action.
Join marches. Every one you can. Take a placard, make it pithy.

You are asked every 5 years or so.

I can’t think of a pressure group possibly since the suffragette movement that has managed so spectacularly to turn huge swathes of people who probably would have supported them, against them.

The tactics of the suffragettes set their movement back years and JSO are doing endless harm to the environmental movement and making “normal” people want nothing to do with the cause, because they don’t want to be associated in any way with the childish embarrassing and misguided actions of this group.

The trans rights movement is probably another group that has managed to campaign in a way that has made people want to give them fewer rights to what they were previously enjoying.

it’s a bizarre tactic and one I simply can’t understand.

Is it insane to believe that global warming is bad and the planet is being damaged by humans? That looking after the planet including the oceans seas and rivers is bad.

I agree their tactics turn people away.

Neither.

The best thing for the planet is for humans to become extinct, the sooner the better. I'm not exactly relishing the idea of being there whilst it happens, but the planet will be just grand without us - yet they're obsessed with prolonging the agony for the planet as a whole with people infesting every corner.

Peaceful protest, persistent campaigning and huge published scientific collaborations haven’t made enough difference over the last 40 decades. So what else is there?

If getting arrested wouldn’t damage my DC I’d be joining them in direct action. I am angry and so should we all be.

Climate chaos has already started, food is already harder to grow, people are already losing their homes to extreme fires and floods, climate related migration has started and climate related deaths and disease have already started to rise.

We are heading for tipping points, after which we may as well just accept our imminent demise. BUT there IS still time to lessen the worst effects and to prepare ourselves to an extent, but Governments are still hell bent on squeezing the last dollars out of extracting new fossil fuels.

Our Government is not holding our best interests in mind. It’s ignoring the science and putting us all in great danger, knowingly. Direct action is the only rational next step now all other peaceful forms of campaigning have been exhausted.

Sitting back and tutting and rolling our eyes isn’t going to help. Marches are needed to show the breadth of anger but that’s been done already, several times.

The Suffragettes were vilified to try and silence them too.

You are all an absolute menace to society.

JSO causes unimaginable destruction. The march will cost thousands to police and thousands to clean up after when you leave all your shit behind.

Carefully planned campaigns in parliaments by NGOs, and scientific publications over 40 years have done little to prompt climate action.

The restore nature now March was covered by 7 UK news outlets, despite huge attendance. Peaceful and uncontroversial actions don’t create much media attention.

Just Stop Oil’s Stonehenge protest was covered by over 15 UK news outlets and 15 international news outlets. It’s making us talk about it all now, whatever are views on it.

The restore nature March was attended by controversial menaces to society like the RSPB and the Wildlife Trusts 😂 I am confident that their members have taken far more practical action than you have.

The global cost of climate change management by 2050 will be 1.7-3 trillion US dollars.

This is for you @iamtheblcksheep 😂

I agree with non violent direct action.
I don't agree with it if it targets and affects the wrong people.

@iamtheblcksheep I'm no fan of JSO, but unimaginable destruction? Compared to climate change? LMFAO 😂

Hyperbole much?

Have you seen the absolute destruction being caused by climate change? Want me to link to some? It’s happening already. Surely you can see that this is an emergency that requires much stronger action than currently being taken?

Exactly.

So much damage and yet the countries doing the most damage aren't held to account.

which countries are doing the most damage?

Historically which countries have done the most damage?

Casting aside the issue of blame - what should we be doing to combat climate change? What do people do, personally, to "do their bit" which is not at all as much as a gnat's bite on an elephant's arse for all the effect it has on our personal lives.

for eg: i don't use, unless absolutely unavoidable, single use plastics (mea culpa: i buy lego)
We wash on a cold wash, using no fabric conditioner. We air our clothes as much as possible to avoid washing too often. We cycle to the station and take the train to work on office days. We use the bare minimum of heating in winter, and don't use aircon (we air the house and use blinds and hand-fans) etc etc. We buy locally produced seasonal food where possible. We don't buy fast fashion.

I live near a massive hole in the ground that hit the news fairly recently when the villages that had been cleared to form the next part of the open-cast mine were occupied for weeks. we go on marches regularly, we grill the local mayor and the owners of the energy companies. We subscribe to renewable energy. We vote for parties that pay attention to the crisis.

So what more can we do? I wonder how much of what i have described the JSO folk do

I expect they do a fair amount of that too. But it’s not enough. We need Governments to legislate. Strongly. We need to keep it on the radar and you doing your bit is good, but it won’t make the news and get people talking.

No one has a zero carbon footprint, we can all do more (unless you live in a passivehaus, only ever walk, eat only home grown food, wear shoes made of tree bark from your garden and a hair shirt from your own shed hair). It doesn’t make anyone a hypocrite for demanding the Government do more, or dilute the message. The facts are clear. Just stop oil. We have to reduce consumption and switch to renewables.

It's good to make an impact like you're doing, thanks for the tips. We have a water butt, recycle a lot, use public transport where possible, reuse plastics such as bread bags for other items, only fill up the kettle with the cup that I'll be drinking tea out of to save energy. Aldi have recently started a soft plastics recycling scheme so I stuff the plastics in there- I was a bit wary of it, but looked online and it looks kosher.

Well Sunak today saying he supports North Sea oil won't be listening.

A lot of the electorate stopped listening with the road blocks, the painting damage and stonehedge. They are now referred to as loonies.

The peaceful march at least has a change to actually not switch people off.