DH not claiming work expenses

[Indiaplain]

DH is a teacher and has just returned from a school trip abroad. He spent around £200 on meals and travel for himself that weren't included (they were in Switzerland so v pricey!)

He says that as teachers they're expected to pay this and he won't ask about claiming back expenses. I think perhaps the lead trip organiser (his boss) should have included the teachers expenses in the pupils costs but didn't. He doesn't want to get her in trouble and won't try to get reimbursed.

This financially puts us in our overdraft this month and I'm annoyed as it's not usual or right - imo - that teachers should suck up this cost? AIBU to feel annoyed?

I think if schools can send pupils a trip to Switzerland then they should be able to cover staff expenses.

If not, then maybe their trips need to be somewhere cheaper and more realistic.

A peripatetic primary teacher would be a supply teacher though, no?

Depends. How did the students eat? Did they choose/pay for food themselves, or was it catered meals? If catered I’d expect the teachers to have that and if they wanted something different then they pay themselves. If students were self-funding meals at point of service then your DH should have had a meal allowance to cover eating away from home specific to the location he was at (as in a companies meal allowance in a really cheap country is not the same as that for a really expensive country).

Similarly, how did it work for tram rides? Did students self-fund or were there group travel tickets (which should have covered the teachers?). Of course he should receive this back as a work expense.

In the performing arts we are not reimbursed for food, local transport. We are however able to include these receipts in our tax returns and expense those costs out against VAT.

This month I’ve already been away for work 3 times (internationally) and have spend hundreds on meals out etc. I’m not getting reimbursed for any of it (nor does my fee reflect the costs of staying alive whilst I’m out there, but that’s another story…), but my taxes will be much lower than someone employed on the same salary, because I can claim all those meals as work expenses.

@TheSandgroper In Australia, I would be seeing a tax agent or ringing the tax office. We can claim all sorts of things in our tax

I’m in Australia, and I’m not saying you can’t, but I’ve never known these as tax claims. They are expenses related to work that the associated Employer should cover. I’ve worked in public and private and never not had things like meals covered as a work expense either refunded by the employer or it gets put on the company credit card and goes through expense system that way. Transport is more complicated. Travel between multiple work sites for the same employer (not directly home to/from a work site) is covered via tax claim but toll/taxi/bus/train from home to airport due to needing to travel to work conference is covered by employer as work expense.

What was the "work trip" for? Spot of skiing over half term ....hardly educational so as a parent I'd expect if I'm paying extra on my child's costs to cover a teacher also going that they also take their own spending money to cover their own lunches etc - especially if those costs weren't Included in the kids costs either and they were having to pay on the day for them

Are these expenses for when he was not on duty with the kids and doing his own site seeing. Not all the teachers on a school trip are on duty all the time.
This is similar for everyone else who goes on a work trip.

Exactly. Any school trip I’ve ever been on the staff costs have all been calculated and included in the cost per head charged per pupil. This would typically include travel, any meals taken at accommodation for example. Any meals or travel that pupils are expected to fund themselves whilst on the trip the staff would also be expected to self fund.
Any member of staff trying to claim expenses when they returned would be too late to claim from the trip costs as the money would have been spent, so they’d be trying to claim from school funds. As spare school funds are non existent and there isn’t a magic school trip fund most if not all staff would cover this themselves. I’d echo posters who say that school trips actually aren’t a free holiday, and that generally they cost us money.

Been in school trips. Tend to be ...

Excursions like a cable car = paid for by school

Food which the letter to parents says is included in price for students = paid for

Food where on the letter it says students need to bring a pack lunch for the first day = not paid for

Has he got receipts? Because it’s a bit pointless if he hasn’t got them . DH’s workplace has daily limit but you still need receipts.

I'm a school business manager and I'd be furious to think teachers were paying for their own meals on a trip.

Honestly, teachers do this to themselves. There's no earthly reason not to put the expenses claim in through the normal channels. Whether for this, mileage or resources they've bought. Obviously there's a process and paperwork to complete and if that process wasn't followed in the organisation of the trip, lessons need to be learned for next time, but I'd still pay the claim.

Lots of teachers don't claim what they should, but that's because they cba with the paperwork or don't want to have the conversation. He needs to be a big boy and ask to be paid.

That would be on a self employed/agency basis though. That's different to employee expenses.

Obviously it should be covered but I’m not sure where the funds are going to go from

other than charging the kids parents even more which would mean even less kids can go

No - peripatetic means that she works from a local base but has to travel out to various schools to support a particular group of children, or other teachers. In her case her “territory” is a huge geographical area which means she has very long travel times and has to cover all her own travel expenses whether car or train, even though her contractual base office is only 5 miles or so from home.

She is a senior teacher with a substantive full time contract.

Those would surely be set against tax though?

She needs to check her employment terms. If she is employed like that by the LA, I guarantee her contract doesn't say she needs to pay her own mileage.

Did all of the kids spend £200? I doubt it, I suspect the school did their duty by providing food and drink and he took one look at it and decided he'd rather buy x&y form a cafe etc. If that's the case no he shouldn't claim it back. If all the kids took £200 to buy their own meals that would be a different story.

I’m afraid school trips are a very different situation to company expenses.
Yes, costings should allow for most travel, meals etc , equivalent to what pupils are getting, to be covered by what pupils are charged for the trip.
Absolutely no reimbursement happens for costs out with this however, it’s kind of accepted that a trip will likely cost you money. There’s just no money for expenses, as PP said , there’s often no money for glue sticks never mind trip expenses.
It does sound like perhaps OP’s husbands trip might not have been costed properly initially, but I can completely understand that her husband won’t go back and claim now, the trip money has been spent . School funds can’t pay .

Schools funds can pay and they would have to if they were asked to. I really don't understand why teachers are so reluctant to claim. They've created this situation themselves.

Are you kidding! I can just see my business managers face if I went and tried to claim expenses! It would be expected that I had looked into what was involved, what was included in the trip before I said yes to going. To be fair the trips I’ve been on have been well costed to include everything outwith personal spending . I do agree however that the expectation that trips will likely cost staff - not just teachers by the way- money has built up over time and has become the norm, which isn’t right. But then neither is it right that staff end up buying pencils, glue sticks because there just isn’t the money .

Your school is being badly run then.

The only time a teacher would pay for any of those things at mine is when they have left it too late to order through the proper channels and don't want to have the conversation about why that was and why they need reimbursing.

It's taxpayer's money, of course schools need to be careful with it and things need to be accounted for with proper paperwork/audit trail, but there's no need whatsoever for teachers to be buying gluesticks.

As an example, I went on a school trip abroad. Not actual costs, but say everything for all pupils and staff going, to include travel to and within the destination, entrance fees etc came to £1000. This was split between pupils to cover staff costs for these things . That money is then spent in advance paying for flights etc for all. One trip was to a theme park where the teenagers were allowed to go off for the day, buying own lunch. I would be expected to pay for my own lunch that day, packed lunch possibly not an option as I’m in a hotel.
If on my return to school I tried to claim that money back, where would it come from, the trip money is all spent. Should it come from the glue stick budget? I accepted that there would be extra costs before I agreed to go, and decided that was ok for me.
I do think trying to claim a fairly significant amount when you return is going to be a problem.

Every school budget has a contingency pot. It might be small, but it will be there. Honestly, this is nonsense. I am an SBM and have been writing school budgets for 15 years. Yes there will be a process to follow, yes it's disappointing and annoying for finance staff when people don't do it properly and in advance, but it can always be fixed.

Most private companies I know will only give you £20-£30 a day in Switzerland. If you go over that it’s on you. So him claiming back 200 is ridiculous

I think you need to drill down to every penny he spent while there and tell him, very honestly, that it wasn’t a holiday. He was there for work and so should have made every effort to reduce costs including packing snacks / bread etc for sandwiches while there. Spending £200 of family money on meals and trams was stupid.