To think Primary School Teacher could be a great job?

[greyskiesandcarpet]

I hear so many negative things about teaching nowadays, but I wonder how bad primary teaching is, in comparison to any other demanding corporate job? This isn't me washing over the fact that some of the job must be really tough, but I want to hear some positive stories. I know a couple of people that couldn't deal with the stress of corporate life, but have excelled in teaching.

"I think there is less accountability asked of teachers than there are in other professions. But they seem to feel really hard done by when questioned. "

You're clearly on the wind-up. Teaching is highly scrutinised and micro-managed, and even though many variables are outside of our control we are being held to account for everything regarding a student's conduct, attitude to learning and actual attainment.

About half of my immediate family are teachers, mostly in primary, some secondary.

I have nothing but respect for their hard work and commitment. It's a job I couldn't do. It's demanding. It's hard.

However, there are some incredible benefits that teachers have.

First is purpose. They are literally changing lives. I work in marketing. It can be fun and interesting but its hard to see how I make any kind of difference to the world. The stories my family tell are moving and incredible.

Second is pensions. Teachers pensions aren't what they were, but employers still pay nearly 30% of salary into a pension scheme! My private sector employer pays 3%!

Third is... holidays. Yes, I know teachers work in their holidays. But they still get 13 weeks! I get 28 days. It's just not comparable.

I have several family members and friends who are teachers some love it others are just waiting for a suitable job/children to be less dependent. All depends on the senior management (can be very nasty) and parents (either too pushy or couldn't care less).

I suppose any stressful demanding corporate job could be great too. I’m the opposite and know of people who hated the stress of teaching but excelled in corporate roles without an issue. Why are you focussing on primary teaching- are you hoping to make the switch from corporate to primary? Or just hoping this will descend into a teacher bashing thread where teachers honestly answer a question and then get accused of moaning all the time?

Gosh your clients must be really awful if they’re worse than many disruptive pupils. I can’t imagine having a chair thrown at my head by an adult or being kicked in the legs or threatened and sworn at by adults. Are you in the police?

also - what do you mean by marking and planning, try having your teams pinging all hours? Teachers are emailed at all hours by parents and senior staff- did you think they only took marking and planning home?

interested also to know which bits of an audit you found more stressful than ofsted? I’m presuming you’ve experienced both to be able to compare?

@ThrallsWife your list of admin tasks had me feeling The Stress just reading it - do you have a union rep though? At one of the schools where I worked and still know the union rep he has successfully resisted teachers making attendance calls/monitoring attendance or updating displays/boards. It’s in a MAT too.

Yes, and the second you say a word, teacher standards are waved at you. This appears to be universal; every school I have worked in since just before Covid has been similar.

But that's my point, the poster who said there is little accountability in teaching is having a laugh. Teachers are being made responsible for everything. My union is talking about local strike action, but it's just talk. I love the school, though, and have worked in far worse environments than this one, because while workload is insane, the atmosphere is generally nice.

Quite happy to tell you about giving up a career in law for primary school teaching, but was bullied so terribly in my final placement by my class teacher mentor and university tutor that I was signed off by my GP with stress. I never went back. I'm still haunted by what happened to me. It set me back career wise for many years and still impacts my mental health.

My way of illustrating the point is that when I did my PGCE I was 28. I'd previously been working in corporate law so demanding as it gets, and in no way wet behind the ears. I had volunteered in a school before PGCE, and had a mum and lots of friends who were teachers so I knew exactly what I was signing up for. Yet that six week placement in an "outstanding" school being bullied by that woman BROKE ME irrevocably.

I can't think of many other workplaces where a client/customer can swear at you, hit you and throw things at you yet there are no consequences and you're expected to continue working with them. No amount of holidays and pensions makes that worthwhile.

Many places I go into have signs up saying that any form of abuse towards staff is not tolerated. Doesn't seem to apply in schools.

Sorry are you having a laugh? The type of person who gives up corporate law / banking for teaching usually can’t handle the pressure of their original work let alone pressure in their new job which has less pay. This is why there is so much clamour to attract people who are already successful in their high status stem / medicine jobs into PGCEs - but to do that the government needs to think creatively. In private schools, for example, these people can teach for a day or two a week / around holidays - this provides experience and gives their students the benefit of their connections.

In other workplaces you’re expected to be polite to your customers, to explain things properly, to manage conversations, to be experts in your fields. But teaching at the moment (especially PGCEs) attracts only those who’ve failed other careers or courses or seem to have an idea that working with young children is somehow less stress than whatever they’re doing currently.

I mean, we are talking about primary schools here. I have had relatives who have been hit, scratched, assaulted by disruptive kids in their care, so I realise it's distressing and painful. But it's a false equivalence talking about "clients or customers" when you're talking about children 11 and under.

The teaching is pretty nice, unless you have particular behaviour issues to deal with. The rest of it is shit. Sadly the stats don't lie, most people that enter the profession leave soon after.

I have been a primary teacher for 20 years and looking to leave soon.

There are many positives:
-being an important part of so many young lives
-sense of accomplishments to know you have made a difference
-having fun with the children
-the day passes really quickly
-you are NEVER bored
-the holidays
-good pension

I am trying to to leave because:
-it's becoming impossible to do a good job because of the increasing amount of ASN and decreasing amount of staff and support
-overcrowded curriculum where it's impossible to have the time to teach things properly
-an increasing focus on statistics rather than the child from management
-behaviour from some children and expectations of parents
-and I need a change

But it's a false equivalence talking about "clients or customers" when you're talking about children 11 and under.

Why? At the end of the day you're still getting assaulted regardless of the age of the person - nobody should expect to be assaulted on a daily basis in their workplace.

Because children aren't "clients" or "customers" with full control of their emotions and actions. If you work with children, there is an obvious expectation that they will not behave as adults do.

Of course teachers shouldn't be routinely assaulted. Of course systems of discipline and support should be put in place. (I appreciate that isn't always happening as much as it should as more children with additional needs are being educated in mainstream classrooms without additional support.)

I used to teach primary and loved it. Thought it was the best job in the world. However it depends on the school you are in and whether the head has been a teacher or a business person. From what I understand now so many Academies are run as businesses. The head has to care for the children and the staff. When you get this you will see a happy school with happy children who are encouraged to have self confidence and fun as they learn. Also the staff turnover is low as there is nothing greater than to see children blossom under your care.

I never understand why teachers think their job is the only stressful job!

All jobs are stressful! And many other jobs are much worse paid than teaching!

Have you worked in a call centre job?

You are quality checked on every single call you take. You are times on:

Length of call
Length of time that you are on hold
How many transfers you made to other departments (you are supposed to resolved the problem on the first call)
You are also timed on how many minutes you are away from your desk going to the toilet.

You do all this while being shouted at and abused by customers.

You are then called into the office every week to talk about why your metrics/call quality scored are not high enough.

Many people have a more stressful job and for less pay than teachers get

It's funny how I went to the same school as a child that I ended up teaching in but when I was there in the 70s, the children managed to have full control of their emotions and actions The only difference is that they knew there were consequences. I've seen the same class behave perfectly well for their own teacher but the complete opposite for PPA cover.

I'm sure it could be with; manageable class sizes, excellent head teachers, proper resources and a bit of break from constant testing.

I doubt that you will find any teacher that hated the actual teaching.
We signed up to teach children , with the marking tracking, etc. that goes with it.
Being around the kids is 90% great (there are always some).
I enjoyed the little club that I had with kids that wanted to be there and further improve their knowledge and the trips that came from it.
But that has become a very small part of the job and the other stresses IMO far out weight the good fun parts.

I worked in a call centre - customers swore at me and threatened me all the time.

My cousin works in residential support centre for teenagers. She has been hit and had things thrown at her

But do you think that other jobs aren't stressful?

For the most part, I enjoy primary teaching (although I teach in Scotland where it's less pressured than England). It's not a stress free job by any means and it's definitely got much harder since I started 10 years ago. It's well paid though (top of the scale teachers in non promoted posts get £50,589 a year now) and I still find joy in the job and feel it's possible (although harder) to make a difference to children's lives. There's no denying that there are significant problems in the education system at the moment though.

I know that other jobs are stressful. I have worked in some of them, and went back to one of them.
What is your point?