Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

If you think of teaching as the “equivalent” of leading a meeting in an office job, or being on stage if you’re a performer of some kind, it might help you understand why teaching time isn’t all of the working time. If you’re leading 5 or 6 hours of meetings per day, you’re obviously going to be doing a lot of additional work to prep for them. Or if you’re acting in a 5 or 6 hour play (!) then you’re also going to spend time learning lines, hair and makeup etc. Do you get it now?

I think it sort of works for secondary age kids but nightmare for primary kids.

Wrap around care is hard enough to get staffing for without it being a whole Friday afternoon.

Sounds like a fairytale to me compared to my personal experience.

Unlike other local authorities in Scotland who are currently trying to shorten the learning week and reduce teaching hours overall and still push for a half day......massive uproar at the moment about it.

Not in England. 6ish in summer, 2 each Xmas and Easter, 1 week each oct and feb half terms (or split differently but same amount of weeks in total).

But op, how will your extra Friday time work out when you have to go to pick your own kids up?

So what should they have done , carried on striking?

My mortgage went up £500 a month plus all the bills, i needed to find near on £1000 a month more so yes I would like a pay rise slightly more in line with inflation than was offered pre strikes otherwise I was in danger of losing my house. ( also I know other people gave some hardship , I encourage them to stand up for their rights to)

I think you need to check the facts before being so sarky.

As written into school pay and conditions for state schools, the salary is for the 39 teaching weeks (inc training days, which were once part of the school holidays before Baker changed that), PLUS the standard holiday entitlement that every job has in the UK of 5.6 weeks. Those holidays obviously have to be taken in the school holidays.

The additional 7ish weeks are unpaid. We cannot be directed to work in them, although a lot of teachers do end up sorting classrooms and schemes of work in them.

The pay is spread over the 12 months to even it out.

Why the hell should they? That’s the difference between a job and a career. Being a TA is a low paid job. Being a teacher is a well salaried career. I wouldn’t expect my PA to be doing work at home and working more than their hours. I would expect my direct reports to work the hours they need to, to get the job done well because that’s why they’re being paid a good salary! Can you not see the distinction? If you don’t want the hours and stress then be a TA but you have to accept the salary cut that goes with it! We all make the choice to have a demanding career and enjoy the benefits that come with it.

I’m sorry your mortgage, along with millions of others, went up so considerably. Unlike you though, those millions of others probably don’t have the comfort of an exceptional pension to look forward to.

That aside, what galled me about the whole striking farce (which incidentally I supported at the beginning) were the passionate claims from teachers that they didn’t want a pay rise for themselves, they wanted it for the greater good of their schools and pupils. As soon as the rise was offered, but that it would come out of budget and actually worsen the schools’ positions, they took it and no more said. No more petitioning and striking for money for the schools. We’re alright jack.

My son went to a UTC, front loaded the week with a 1pm finish on Friday. It seemed to work ok overall although it was more styled around a lot of modern jobs following the same pattern. The last job I had in the commercial sector before switching to education did that in factory roles, as did a couple of others on our industrial estate.

Agree with your overall point of the thread but that's an awful take. They do more than they should, as do teachers. What you've described is way beyond their remit. Depending on the demographic of the pupils they can often do more planning for lessons than teachers depending on the pupils in that lesson.

@Thorpepark teachers are only allowed to strike about pay and conditions, they are pretty vocal about the state of school funding though. You didn’t answer my question though, would you prefer ten to strike for longer? . I’m not the one making assumptions about others as I am not educated enough about them, I can only comment on my own experience…

Yes, we heard that ad infinitum: ‘officially we’re striking about pay and conditions but actually we’re striking about getting more money into schools, don’t worry, we’re willing to sacrifice days and days of pay for the greater good’.

Money offered. Then silence.

And to answer your question, which is a good one, absolutely not. They lost all my support with the last lot of strikes which ended up being totally self serving. If they had been honest and said ‘we need more money, (on top of our pensions) end of argument’ then perhaps I would still support them, but they dressed it up with other emotive concerns to get parents onside and then cut and run.

calm down! I haven’t once said they should be planning have I ?

Someone else asked how they would do their planning if they were watching children on a Friday afternoon and I’ve pointed out that they don’t usually plan , therefore wouldn’t need PPA! I haven’t suggested anything to affect them .

So what should they have done differently? You didn’t want them to strike for longer, but you were appalled when they stopped?

Believe it not, teacher can believe school need more funding ( they absolutely do) but still want to pay their bills.

AS DO OTHER PEOPLE as I have said all along. One does not mean the other is not true. They are separate statements .

I’m not saying they don’t plan , I’m just saying my experience - the TAs I know and work with .

Ours did 2.40 instead of 3.20 but it made a huge difference. If parents worked and couldn't collect or had no support children had 30 mins in the hall with a TA... worked well

I was appalled for the reasons they stopped and therefore can’t trust their motives anymore. Pocketed the money and that was that. We haven’t heard a peep since. The bluster about it being for their schools now looks like it was bullshit, as long as they got what they wanted, stuff the rest. I’m sure that’s not the whole truth of the matter, I’m aware I’m being sweeping and hard, but that’s the impression we ended up getting.

And yes, of course they can care about conditions in schools AND want to pay their bills, but it became clear what they cared about more.

I'd be very surprised if you've seen ALL the teachers doing this MOST days. I have many colleagues who leave at 3:30/4 PM but they come in at 7/7:30 AM. I'm not able to do that but it's their choice to do so. They definitely can't leave at that time every day though as we have compulsory weekly meetings which run until 5 PM, as do most schools. I have sometimes had to rush out the school gates after the children have been dismissed if I am off to attend another meeting or training course, although this happens less often now due to the rise in online meetings.
Also, just to add, due to budget cuts and cleaning and janitorial staff shortages our school building is forced to close not long after the children leave 3 days a week and so we need to take our work home (unless you are one of the early risers).
It's easy to make assumptions based on very limited evidence.

They had to stop because they had the pay rise and can’t strike about it school funding.

I read teaching papers and follow educational social media. They are forever talking about school funding, it’s never gone away but the media are not interested, they covered the strikes but don't give airtime to them talking about funding. Recruitment is a huge issue, school building are falling down, SEN budgets slashed , it’s talked about loads but mainstream media doesn’t, that is not the fault of teachers.

But to be honest, I care very much about education for all children, but I do care about more own family more. Do you not care more about your own family than your job?

@Thorpepark Are they definitely teachers or are they support staff? I've been in education 20 years and have never known a teacher to ever leave at 3.30.

Ok fair enough, I accept that it may not be all of them.

I do know that there are no after school clubs on offer. At all. Parents (fully DBS checked) have offered to run some (for free…. Crafts, sports etc) and they have been told no, because there wouldn’t be a staff member available, on any single day of the week, to lock up and alarm after them.

They could have said, thanks but no thanks, and carried on striking (with the support of parents when it became clear that they did actually care about conditions in schools). Smoke and mirrors.

Yes of course I care more about my family than my job, it doesn't need to be said. However teachers earn enough. It’s the schools that need more money.